00:00:10 <Randune> well..I mean like
00:00:19 <Randune> BeOS..X Window..that kind of thing
00:00:25 <Randune> something similar to those
00:01:17 <downix> they all have those
00:01:27 <Randune> kewl..
00:01:28 <downix> AROS is the most primitive out of them all in that area
00:01:35 <downix> AROS tho is really lacking
00:01:44 <Randune> it seems that all of these OSes Shells look just like Linux's, why is that?
00:02:52 <downix> because many of them learned GUI from X, which Linux uses.
00:03:18 <Randune> kewl
00:03:39 <downix> AtheOS learned it from Amiga however, so it looks like an Amiga
00:04:05 <Randune> so, would Inferno be extremely efficient at networking, because it's a networking OS, more so than Win9x?
00:04:11 <downix> yes
00:04:31 <downix> also Inferno is a cross-platform OS.  Binaries for it will run on any CPU that can run Inferno
00:04:33 <ult> Inferno is nifty
00:04:43 <downix> it kicks Amie's ass
00:04:45 <ult> The tunes project really ought to buy a nmonn-commercial license and release it
00:04:53 downix nods
00:04:57 <ult> (Once you have a license you can redistribute it in any form unlimited)
00:05:03 <downix> <I know>
00:05:09 <ult> And a NC license is only 250 bucks
00:05:12 <Randune> that's kewl...will inferno run on x86?
00:05:23 <ult> or something like that...
00:05:23 <downix> <I could get $250 by the end of the month>
00:05:27 <downix> Randune:  yes
00:05:36 <Randune> right on..
00:05:44 <ult> I'll donate 25 cents...
00:06:10 <Randune> kewl, AtheOS looks cool, how stable is it?
00:06:16 <downix> quite stable
00:06:27 <Randune> are there many apps for it?
00:07:09 <downix> not really
00:07:26 <Randune> yeah..that's the only thing that sux
00:07:29 <ult> statnet?
00:07:38 <Randune> maybe I should stay with one of the bigger OSes
00:07:57 <ult> depends on what your doing
00:08:09 <ult> for word processing stick with linux/freebsd{TeX} or windows(word)
00:08:22 <downix> I love TeX
00:08:27 <ult> for OS devel, install everything and juggle partitions :)
00:08:27 <downix> and AtheOS has EMACS
00:08:48 <Randune> right on
00:08:52 <Randune> what is FreeBSD tex?
00:09:15 <ult> TeX is a typesetting package
00:09:22 <downix> EMACS is god!
00:09:22 <Randune> which means what?
00:09:23 <downix> hehe
00:09:23 <Randune> )
00:09:49 <downix> Randune:  it means it's like postscript 
00:10:02 <Randune> well..my 4 fav Oses are: Win9x, Linux, BeOS, AmigaOS
00:10:10 <Randune> I see
00:10:21 <ult> my 4 fav OSes are NT, NT, NT, NT
00:10:25 <Randune> anyone here used BeOS?
00:10:31 <Randune> eh
00:11:00 <Randune> I like the simplicity of BeOS
00:11:06 <Randune> and it's quite powerfull too
00:11:09 <downix> My fave OS's are AmigaOS, Linux, QNX, and CAOS
00:11:17 <Randune> kewl
00:11:26 <Randune> I wish I had an Amiga 4000T
00:11:28 <Randune> they rock
00:11:35 <Randune> with a Video Toaster:)
00:12:47 <Randune> does BeOS have an X Server?
00:13:11 <downix> dunno
00:13:15 <downix> I have an Amiga 1000
00:13:37 <Randune> I have an Amiga 500..
00:14:32 <downix> I wouldn't want an A4000T
00:14:39 <downix> I'd rather have an A2000 or A3000T
00:15:22 <Randune> well..the A2000 is the same as the A500 pretty much, just more room cause it's in a desktop case
00:16:19 <downix> and Zorro 2 slots
00:16:26 <downix> and a video slot
00:17:04 <Randune> yeah
00:17:11 <Randune> but the A4000T is much more powerfull
00:18:23 <downix> no it isn't 
00:18:36 <downix> the 4000T is a major hack-job
00:18:48 <downix> and that is from David Haynie who designed it
00:18:48 <Randune> it's the best one...has all kinds of bells and whistles
00:19:04 <downix> no, the 3000T is the ultimate Amiga according to him and everyone else at Commodore
00:19:09 <Randune> you can probablly get an A3000 for pretty cheap used from somewere
00:19:29 <downix> hell no, the 3000 is more expensive than the 4000
00:19:36 <downix> people know how valulable they are
00:19:54 <Randune> hmm..wish I could get one:)
00:20:05 downix nods
00:20:09 <downix> I want a 3000T or a 2000
00:20:31 <Randune> I'd say the 3000T for sure
00:20:43 <Randune> with the Video Toaster:)
00:20:52 <Randune> downix
00:20:55 <Randune> you're in the states
00:20:59 <Randune> why don't you check out ebay?
00:21:09 <downix> I did
00:21:24 <downix> only found a single 3000 in the past 8 months
00:21:27 <Randune> nothin' there?
00:21:29 <downix> found 90 4000
00:21:55 <Randune> hehe
00:22:25 <downix> I bought a few things from eBat
00:22:27 <downix> eBay
00:23:04 <Randune> nice..sorry all..but I have to go..
00:23:11 <Randune> thanks for all your input..see yah
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04:02:13 <eihrul> gakuk
04:02:19 <Fare> gakuk
04:11:39 <eihrul> what's up?
04:11:43 <Fare> no, he is a gas
04:12:34 Fare was shocked by this sentence, in an article about translation from one language into another: "He is a gas."
04:12:43 <eihrul> where what specifically infers any event in the immediate past, present, or future that may be relevant :)
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10:01:05 <Kyle_L> Hi Fare
10:08:16 <Fare> lo, KL
10:10:46 <Kyle_L> Would you happen to know any references to how dynamic classes are handled? 
10:11:07 <Kyle_L> I find that handling dynamic classes is slow because few assumptions can be made.
10:12:04 <Kyle_L> I am trying to come up with a "fixing specification" to allow me to make the optimizing assumptions in a temporary operating realm.
10:13:12 <Kyle_L> I am familiar with typing, and functional optimizations.  I am concerned with structural optimization (making better datastructures).
10:15:40 <Fare> dynamic classes, as in modifying the metaclass in CLOS?
10:15:49 <Kyle_L> yes
10:16:00 <Fare> Hum. Look for litterature about Common LISP, CECIL, Dylan, and more.
10:16:40 <Fare> Bibliographic searches and USENET searches (in comp.lang.{lisp,dylan}) could help.
10:17:08 <Fare> Dylan has a way to "seal" classes so as to allow optimizations.
10:18:15 <Kyle_L> That sounds static wrt to the execution of the program that uses the sealed class.
10:23:40 <Kyle_L> thanks
10:28:17 <Fare> yes, sealing is static wrt execution, and that's the whole point.
10:28:29 <Fare> Else what you want is a mechanism of cacheing and invalidation
10:28:50 <Fare> i.e. modifying (setf foo) so that it does some invalidation.
10:29:16 <Fare> and/or modifying (getf foo) so that it does some coherency testing.
10:29:41 <Kyle_L> Exactly.
10:31:35 <Kyle_L> Having dynamic class changes is a powerful tool.  The invalidation code is expensive, but is not used often.  I beleive it makes up for the programmer time lost.
10:32:22 <Kyle_L> Once the first "fixing specification" is complete, I am sure optimizations will be apparent.
10:37:02 <Kyle_L> I hope I am clear enough on what I am trying to do.  May you tell me if this goes under a name other than "fixing specification"?
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15:40:42 <Fare> Kyle: still there? It goes by the name dynamic specialization (a technique popularized in Self).
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18:07:10 <ult> Arrakis: Most of those classes do not exist in AP form d00d, stop BS'ing.
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19:41:20 <water> re
19:59:42 <Kyle_L> hi
19:59:49 <water> hey kyle
20:00:01 <water> eih and i are working on slate right now
20:00:09 <Kyle_L> Do you have a suggestion on a refactoring book?
20:00:29 <water> yes, _Refactoring_ by Kent Beck :)
20:00:48 <ult> Can I work on slate too??
20:00:55 <water> heh
20:01:03 <water> talk to eihrul
20:01:16 <water> he's making a pidgin slate-self
20:01:21 <Kyle_L> what is being worked on now?
20:01:32 water points at his previos statement
20:01:51 <water> i'm working on the "type" system
20:02:04 <water> i.e. more specs
20:02:45 <water> (when i figure the idea out in large-scale terms)
20:24:08 <water> hm... for the xml buffs...
20:24:23 <water>  http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/xmill/
20:26:58 <water> also from Wadler... :)
20:27:00 <water> http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/wadler/xml/
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20:28:16 <water> for the straight dope on xml :)
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21:54:15 <ult> pah, whatever =)
21:54:51 <water> sorry, it was distracting me
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21:56:38 <water> heh, there's a concept :)
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22:00:02 <jeza> hey there!
22:00:16 <water> hi
22:00:30 <water> what can we do for ya?
22:00:39 <jeza> how are you 
22:00:51 <water> not bad, thinking
22:01:06 <water> about tunes, of course :)
22:01:10 <jeza> not much just cruisin and saw tunes
22:01:16 <water> ok
22:01:35 <jeza> you guys musso's??
22:01:41 <water> "musso"?
22:01:52 <jeza> musicians
22:01:57 <water> heh
22:02:08 <water> nope, look at http://www.tunes.org
22:02:20 <jeza> ok
22:02:27 <water> actually about half of us are decent musicians
22:02:38 <water> but that's not what the "tunes" thing is :)
22:04:22 <jeza> aahh  right
22:04:55 <jeza> just noticed smoke on the water
22:04:58 <jeza> 10£àughing 10Ôut 10£oud
22:05:01 <water> heh
22:05:13 <water> i never noticed that, actually :)
22:06:04 <jeza> anyway  i'll catch ya later
22:06:11 <water> ok
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22:30:38 <water> the average number of books read by a programmer in the USA is 0.4 
22:30:48 <water> sorry, that should be quoted
22:30:55 <water> "the average number of books read by a programmer in the USA is 0.4 "
22:31:27 <water> i must be making up for a lot of illiterate programmers :)
22:41:12 <eihrul> whoa...
22:41:15 <eihrul> are you serious?
22:41:20 <water> dunno
22:41:29 <water> i saw it quoted in a smalltalk article
22:41:39 <eihrul> well, is that a per year figure?
22:41:43 <eihrul> a lifetime figure, wha? :)
22:41:47 <water> yearly
22:42:05 <eihrul> okay :)
22:42:15 <water> mentioned in a neighboring sentence
22:42:34 <eihrul> but then again, don't forget other mechanisms like postscript :)
22:42:44 <water> of course
22:42:58 <water> it was probably one of those stuffy studies
22:43:24 <water> where they measure something completely meaningless because no one will respect the real data
00:18:54 <water> blah