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09:09:28 <_101> hi
09:09:57 <smkl> hello ... 
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12:28:35 <Echap> can anyone help me ?
12:29:17 <Echap> about reflexivity ?
13:35:34 <smkl> ?
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14:23:48 [MODE] ChanServ set mode: +o HenZo
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14:35:52 <HenZo> hey fare
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14:38:46 <Fare> yeah, henzo
14:39:25 <HenZo> I like your firewall piercing mini-HOWTO. :) 
14:40:02 <HenZo> ..and I'd pronounce it, "fwup-R-C"... ;)
14:40:42 <Fare> HenZo: send the .au/.mp3/foo
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14:41:01 <HenZo> ok.. I'll record it.
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15:20:57 <water> re
15:21:09 <water> hi echap
15:22:12 <Echap> hi
15:24:49 <Echap> Question : i want to make a thesis on reflexivity, an ideas guys ? 
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15:28:34 <water> re
15:31:42 <water> echap: what about reflexivity?
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15:45:22 <Echap> water : formalization of reflective language
15:48:15 <water> heh
15:48:27 <water> well what literature are you researching from?
15:49:11 <water> and what topics or languages or issues or authors have you researched in depth?
15:49:24 <water> (this affects what you can write about)
15:49:52 <Echap> José Meseguer and Clavel (Axiomatizing reflective language)
15:50:24 <Echap> Sean Matthews (Max Plank Institute)
15:50:47 <Echap> GEB / Hofstadter
15:51:47 <Echap> Gödel, Turing
15:52:08 <Echap> Jacques Pitrat (France)
15:53:13 <Echap> Universal Element in recursion theory
15:53:24 <water> GEB sucks
15:53:26 <Echap> Theory of Language
15:53:37 <water> GEB is poison for your mind
15:53:58 water considers what url's would be most useful
15:54:07 <water> are you aware of researchindex?
15:54:13 <Echap> yes
15:54:24 <water> have you drained it of all relevant papers?
15:54:30 <water> *all*
15:54:35 <Echap> all i can
15:54:51 <water> hold on... brb
15:54:59 <Echap> ok
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15:57:47 <Fare> Salut
15:58:22 <Echap> salut faré
15:58:27 <Echap> samir à l'appareil
15:58:34 <Echap> ta thèse avance ?
15:59:08 <Fare> Salut, Echap. Non, pas assez.
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15:59:56 <water> re
15:59:59 <water> so anyway
16:00:25 <water> i think you should read absolutely every reflection article from RI that you can find
16:00:40 <water> to make sure that your perspective on the problem isn't too narrow
16:00:59 <water> unless of course, you're just writing this paper to satisfy an assigned requirement
16:01:16 <water> in which case, i don't particularly care what you do
16:01:31 <Echap> for my own satisfaction, water
16:01:42 <Echap> no for the others
16:01:54 <Echap> not for the others
16:02:07 <water> even that is not enough for me :)
16:02:22 <Echap> Fare : possible d'avoir un draft de ta thèse ?
16:03:47 <Fare> il n'y en a pas grand chose. Mais ce pas grand'chose est dans ~fare/fare/phdthesis/ sur bespin
16:04:34 <Echap> bespin ?
16:05:00 <water> bespin.org serves www.tunes.org
16:05:10 <Echap> ok
16:05:39 <Echap> A+
16:05:47 <Echap> 5YU water
16:05:49 <Fare> Echap: tu n'as pas de compte sur bespin?
16:05:52 <Echap> bye fare
16:05:58 <Echap> non j ai aps de compte
16:06:03 <Echap> je dois me sauver
16:06:05 <Fare> attends, ce n'est pas sur le ouèbe, sauf via cvsweb
16:06:05 <Echap> A+
16:06:09 <Fare> A+
16:06:14 [QUIT] Echap quit: isws prepei na sto pw, isws na min prepei pia....
16:07:02 <water> "A+"?
16:07:16 <water> "5YU"?
16:07:46 <Fare> "A+" is a way to say "CUl8r" in french.
16:07:55 <water> ic
16:09:04 <Fare> short form for "à plus tard"
16:45:49 <water> welll anyway, i'm putting together new slate docs from scratch for diktuon
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19:49:05 <water> hey scipient
19:49:10 <water> hi felix
19:49:26 <water> is there anything i can do for you guys?
19:49:30 <water> )
19:50:36 <water> well if you aren't on-channel for a while, just know that i'm sorry i wasn't paying attention when you came it
19:50:41 <water> s/it/in/
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20:38:22 <feelicks_> water?
20:40:04 <water> yes?
20:42:00 <feelicks_> sorry for being idle i didnt mean to be rude
20:42:14 <water> np
20:42:17 <feelicks_> i was looking around for lisp stuff and stumbled onto tunes
20:42:20 <water> (i did the same)
20:42:20 <feelicks_> looks very cool
20:42:23 <water> ok
20:42:30 <feelicks_> the os faq gave the impression it is dead however
20:42:40 <water> the os faq is quite old
20:42:43 <feelicks_> i was surprised to see people in the channel
20:42:44 <water> and fare-based
20:42:46 <feelicks_> indeed
20:43:00 <water> fare's creative spark has died, i think
20:43:10 <water> but that is no matter
20:43:22 <water> slate is the current effort
20:43:33 <water> but it is mostly under wraps for now
20:43:46 <feelicks_> is there a link to that on the tunes site?
20:43:52 <water> there is an implementation, but we are not sharing
20:44:00 <water> yes
20:44:17 <feelicks_> i found it
20:44:25 feelicks_ is dum, didnt look at old news
20:45:53 <water> but the docs on slate online are not current
20:45:54 <water> e.g.
20:45:54 <water> http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate.html
20:45:54 <water> (or is it http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate/ ?)
20:45:57 <water> anyway
20:45:58 <water> http://slate.tunes.org
20:46:00 <water> most of the docs are out of date, i am currently redocumenting it from scratch
20:46:22 <feelicks_> i hate writing docs
20:46:30 <water> heh
20:46:34 <feelicks_> most of my stuff is in perl so i can just put it in there so thats not bad
20:46:51 <feelicks_> i write lots on paper but i dont like converting it, thats all
20:46:55 feelicks_ is lazy
20:46:57 <water> ok
20:47:07 <water> well get one of those new ocr pens
20:47:10 <water> )
20:47:19 <water> but that's irrelevant
20:47:27 <water> slate is an active tunes research topic
20:47:34 <feelicks_> i'm just reading 'the age of intelligent machines' and it does about that
20:47:41 <water> but again, i'm not sharing in the development and researcg
20:47:42 <feelicks_> is slate the only main effort of tunes?
20:47:49 <water> as of now?
20:47:58 <water> it's the most serious effort yet
20:47:58 <feelicks_> not sharing? as in, only you are making slate?
20:48:03 <water> not quite
20:48:10 <water> there is one other making slate
20:48:15 <water> (eihrul)
20:48:30 <water> he is a compiler self-made expert
20:48:40 <feelicks_> well what do you mean by not sharing
20:48:44 <water> also a very good lisp programmer
20:48:48 <feelicks_> compiler design boogles my mind
20:48:54 <water> heh
20:48:59 <water> compiler design is not so bad
20:49:02 <water> anyway
20:49:02 <feelicks_> especially the chicken-egg dilemma
20:49:26 <water> "not sharing" means we are not really opening the discussion to the mailing list
20:49:45 <water> since that has proven unprofitable for the entire tunes history
20:50:22 <water> i think you'll find that language design issues require more involvement than a mailing list can support
20:50:32 <feelicks_> unproftiable aka a waste of time or counterproductive (too much talk no action)
20:50:43 <feelicks_> that makes sense
20:50:44 <water> especially for a language as different as slate (or tunes)
20:51:06 <water> it was tunes' hope that it would not be so, actually
20:51:12 <water> however
20:51:53 <water> we believe that due to tunes ideas we will develop a "groupware" environment which would be of sufficient quality to make that limitation a thing of the past
20:52:09 <water> (we are indeed working on this idea as well, myself and coreyr)
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20:56:10 <feelicks_> what do you do besides slate/tunes, or are they your "job"?
20:57:09 <water> i basically do r&d, yes
20:57:09 <water> i also have my own project whose aims supercede tunes
20:57:09 <water> (actually, two)
20:57:11 <water> arrow and <>
20:57:43 <water> which are at successively higher aims
20:57:53 <water> i also have a couple of day jobs :)
20:58:25 <feelicks_> i found the arrow draft, is <> reference on tunes.org?
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