IRC log started Thu Jun 17 00:00:01 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0617
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us725.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us806.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- NetSplit: sterling.openprojects.net split from varley.openprojects.net [09:26am]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [sterling.openprojects.net]
-:- s_r [s_rr@phila-dialup166.nni.com] has joined #tunes
-:- Netjoined: sterling.openprojects.net varley.openprojects.net
-:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #Tunes
-:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #Tunes
-:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+o Tril] by clarke.openprojects.net
-:- s_r [s_rr@phila-dialup166.nni.com] has left #tunes []
-:- binEng [Anders@dialup44-4-38.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us122.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
<Fare> hum
* Fare/#Tunes had a dinner party with RMS as honor guest
04:10pm
<Fare> DoS attacks on bespin?
-:- iepos [iepos@d5.t1-7.tecinfo.com] has joined #TUNES
04:30pm
<iepos> umm... Fare, you might need to reboot tunes.org.
<iepos> sorry i accidentally did a big recursive fork().
<iepos> :~|
04:40pm
-:- water [water@ppp-tnt-20.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes
<water> 'lo all
-:- SignOff water: #TUNES (The Tao has left the building!)
05:00pm
-:- Tril_ [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #TUNES
<Tril_> ok how did bespin's load average get up to 259?
<hcf> <iepos> umm... Fare, you might need to reboot tunes.org.
<hcf> <iepos> sorry i accidentally did a big recursive fork().
<hcf> <iepos> :~|
<Tril_> how do I kill it?
<iepos> reboot.
<Tril_> not necessary.
<iepos> okay... hmmm........... how else?
<Tril_> tell me everything you know
<Tril_> what is running, process name, file name, dir, who wrote it, etc
<iepos> everything i know?
<iepos> oh i was working on a Life simulator.
<Tril_> yes, and hury up, or I might delete your account to solve the problem.
<iepos> and made a mistake with fork()
<iepos> so, the program is called "crunch"
<iepos> but "killall crunch" gives me an error 
<Tril_> what error
<iepos> "fork: resource temporarily unavailable"
<iepos> no more room for more processes i guess.
<Tril_> well I got resources cuz I'm root
<iepos> ohh
<Tril_> it worked, i think they are gone
<iepos> well "killall crunch" might do it
05:10pm
<Tril_> hmm..there's an argument for making killall setuid root
<Tril_> the solution should be instead to put killall as an internal shell command
<iepos> sorry i won't do it again :-)
<Tril_> then yo can kill all your processes without forking a process to do it
<Tril_> ok
<Tril_>   5:11pm  up 38 days,  7:36,  2 users,  load average: 30.60, 167.19, 223.65
<iepos> hmm... oh yes my other Life program is still running. you don't mind do you? :-)
<iepos> that one doesn't use fork though.
<Tril_> I read the source for that.. it looks like it does.. um, nothing?  Waits for some data to be written to a fifo and prints it? An exercise in programming maybe?
<Tril_> what dose it do
<iepos> which one? "crunch" or "life"
<Tril_> the one i looked at before, life i guess
<iepos> life is my original one... it works fine... no fork()
<iepos> crunch is the bad one. don't run it.
<iepos> it's going to be a server for a distributed life cruncher...
-:- _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes
<iepos> oh wait, have you not heard of conway's game of Life?
<Tril_> i know what the game of life is
<iepos> that's what this is... actually it's a variation
<_QZ> everyone has heard of life
<iepos> :-)
<Tril_> when I looked at it, it looked like a program to test programming sockets, and nothing else.
<Tril_> hmm, now I see you added stuff such as a "board". :)
<iepos> oh... yeah.
<Tril_> and it doesnt have any socket stuff anymore..
<Tril_> moved it into crunch
<iepos> hey, have you ever tried the 35789 rule? that's what its doing now...
<iepos> live cell born on 35789 neighbors
<iepos> 9 neighbors (including self) are totaled.
<Tril_> what do those digits represent?
<iepos> the rule is also symmetrical in that live cells are treated the same way as dead
<iepos> oh... i mean live cell on 3, 5, 7, 8, or 9 live neighbors
<iepos> a consequence is that a cell becomes dead on 3, 5, 7, 8, or 9 dead neighbors
<Tril_> all I know is how to make walkers, and if you make a rectangle 2x10 cells it will get into a pattern and live forever.
<iepos> oops i gotta go
<iepos> see ya later
<iepos> bye
-:- SignOff iepos: #TUNES (iepos)
<Tril_> oh, usually it's only 3 neighbors, right
<_QZ> Tril_: wanna fix my box?
05:20pm
<Tril_> _QZ: did iepos run a buggy crunch on it?
<_QZ> crunch?
<abi> rumour has it crunch is the bad one. don't run it
<Tril_> abi forget crunch
<abi> Tril_: I forgot crunch
<_QZ> whats a crunch?
<Tril_> iepos was programming a server called crunch, and he had a fork bug so bespin's load went to 259
<_QZ> haha
<Tril_> someone called me on the phone so I logged on to fix it
<Tril_> "I can't log on it doesnt get past "You have mail."!!!"
<_QZ> no, i installed accelX 4.1 which uses libc5 and then the power went out yesterday and now X wont work
* Tril_/#TUNES bops _QZ over the head
<Tril_> never say "wont work" nobody can ever help you with that! They will ignore you!
<_QZ> i got X working again but when i boot it goes to gdm but the background is no longer blue and it doesnt have the redhat logo and when i login it just goes back to gdm
<Tril_> _QZ: Try turning the computer back on!
<_QZ> hahah, i have turned it off and on about 50 times
<_QZ> cuz i had a shitload of kernel problems that i never fixed when it was working before :)
<Tril_> why dont you use the mandatory virtual console to log on and fix the X problem?
<_QZ> i disabled gdm and am using vt's for now
<Tril_> did you run fsck
<_QZ> i cant even bypass gdm
<_QZ> fsck was run after the power went out
-:- s_r [s_rr@phila-dialup121.nni.com] has joined #tunes
<Tril_> so?  verify the gdm package to make sure all its files are there, and check for old lock files
<_QZ> would it be gdm's problem?
<_QZ> i really hate packages
<_QZ> i liked my old system where i compiled everything myself
<s_r> qz linux?
<_QZ> i knew exactly how everything was installed and could easily reinstall it
<_QZ> s_r: ya
<Tril_> make sure there's free space in your home directory, at least on CDE/Solaris it wont let you login if your quota is maxed
<s_r> qz: what are you using now?
<_QZ> s_r: rh6
<s_r> hmm solaris
<s_r> solaris?
<abi> solaris is probably wide open to exploits
<_QZ> Tril_: i know i have quotas on but i havent done anything with them and i do have over a gig in each of /home /usr / /home/pub
<s_r> qz have you tried solaris, it's neat
<_QZ> Disk quotas for user brand (uid 500): none
05:30pm
<Tril_> you should be able to find out why logging on fails by reading logs..
<s_r> qz: ditch redhat and just install BriX
<s_r> :P
<Tril_> anyway, i'm not here to blab i've got important work to do
<Tril_> I'm making progress deciphering the level format of Zelda 1
<Tril_> ask some linux bozo i mean guru in another channel
<s_r> qz: try #linuxwarez on efnet
-:- mode/#Tunes [+b *!dem@*.wwu.edu] by Tril
-:- Tril_ was kicked off #TUNES by Tril (Bitch-X BaBy!)
-:- mode/#Tunes [-b *!dem@*.wwu.edu] by Tril
<_QZ> hmm
<_QZ> Tril: why cant i ask the linux guru in this channel ? :)
<Tril> you did, and i couldn't help.
<Tril> use logs, look at files , clean out /tmp, make sure the kernel has the right modules, use strace
<_QZ> strace?
<Tril> if you let me log on maybe i can help better.
<s_r> qz: what's the problem?
<abi> the problem is ... (fill in problem here)
<_QZ> s_r: have u used rh6?
<s_r> debian and slackware only
<s_r> but what's your problem?
<s_r> packages not able to be uninstalled?
<_QZ> well it use to boot up and display a blue screen with the redhat logo and a gdm login window
<_QZ> now it just shows a gray screen, no logo and the gdm window but when i login it blacks the screen and then jumps back to gdm
<_QZ> i tried to bypass gdm and put gnome in my .Xclients but that just goes to the X grey screen with nothing and sits there
<s_r> try removing XDM startup on initialization entirely
<s_r> well remove X startup from your rc files
<_QZ> i did have to reinstall all the xf86 rpm's cuz i kinda installed accelX 4.1 (libc5 version) over it and i have libc6
<s_r> and then just try starting it from command prompt
<_QZ> ya i disabled gdm on boot
<s_r> why'd you install accelx over xf86?
<_QZ> booting to gdm and running gdm in the vt's does the same thing
<_QZ> accelX is faster and gives me a 68hz refresh, xf86 gives me a 60hz
<Tril> don't you mean "automatically"?
<_QZ> i wasnt thinking about ax being libc5 when i installed it :)
05:40pm
<s_r> i wish tehre was accelx src code
<Tril> the refresh achievable is solely dependent on your monitor, so you should be able to copy the settings into XF86
<_QZ> i will just have to find ax5 in the warez channels :)
<_QZ> Tril: how?
<s_r> qz: #linuxwarez
<_QZ> i have an optiquest v775-2, xf86 lists a v775 and ax4 lists a viewsonic 17
<Tril> qz you need to create a ModeLine for XF86 that specifies the resolution, dot clock, vsync, hsync, vertical start and horizontal start
<Tril> run xvidtune to get that info
<_QZ> how do i get the dotclock?
<_QZ> Error: Can't open display:
<Tril> you acn also use xvidtune to adjust the screen position of all your modes for monitor that doesnt do that for you
<_QZ> seems i need to be in X right?
<Tril> programs that start with x, yes, usually
<s_r> qz: do you plan on BriX using XF86?
<_QZ> well i cant get into X right now, so....
<Tril> i meant after you solve this problem
<_QZ> s_r: noooo
<_QZ> s_r: brix will have support for the X protocol so it can display remote programs
<_QZ> Tril: i will try that after i solve this problem
<s_r> qz: if you are going to write a graphical interface for BriX you could learn a lot from accelx src code, if it was available
<_QZ> why does matrox cards have to be in the svga server?
<Tril> disable gdm, have you tried running 'startx' at the console?
<_QZ> why cant matrox have its own server? :)
<_QZ> startx, X, Xwrapper, ...
<s_r> qz: why don't you just use Windows 98?
<_QZ> i put 'exec gnome-session' in my .Xclients and it goes to the grey screen then flicks black then sits there
<Tril> anyone want to buy a computer someone i know is selling one, K6-2 450, SCSI CD-RW, etc let me know if you want more information
<_QZ> when i try to just run enlightenment in .Xclients it sits on the grey X screen
<Tril> gnome-session works?
<_QZ> it might be gnome that is failing
<Tril> dont use xclients i never heard of that, read the xinitrc
<Tril> turn off gnome and stuff then
-:- tcn [tcn@cci-209150250108.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes
<Tril> hi tcn
<_QZ> i tried running enlightenment from xinitrc but it wouldnt work. let me go try to run gnome from it
<s_r> tcn how's work on your OS?
<tcn> hey tril.. heh, I heard about what happened in bellingham the other day..
<tcn> BOOM
<tcn> glad to see you survived unscathed 
<tcn> s_r- slow, but moving :)
<s_r> tcn do you know anything about GNU HURD? i have a question about its workings
<_QZ> hmm still get the grey screen
05:50pm
<_QZ> bellingham?
<s_r> tcn are you going to ever write the kernel in Forth?
<tcn> dammit, net congestion!
>>> Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] requested PING 929667054 977472 from #TUNES
<tcn> s_r: yeah, I guess.. for portability
<Tril> tcn have you considered choosing a server CLOSE to you??
<s_r> do you consider Forth a HLA?
<s_r> abi: HLA is a High Level Assembler
<Tril> such as norton.openprojects.net or irc.linux.com which are in your state
<tcn> tril, it's not irc, it's pop3
<Tril> sorry can't speed up pop3
<Tril> ftp to the server and bzip2 your mailbox
<tcn> yeah, I guess it's a high level assembler.. you can keep building the level up higher and higher
<tcn> it was stopped, tril.. goes fast, once it gets moving :)
<s_r> tcn what are some other unusual languages that are like Forth in their unique nature, or is forth in a class of its own?
<tcn> there's others
<s_r> do you think all programming paradigms have been fully explored? No new things to accomplish when talking about compilers and languages?
<tcn> lisp, for example
<tcn> no, no, there's tons we could do
<Tril> s_r the main task isnt to find new paradigms but to find how to make the existing ones interoperate in a single system.
<Tril> at least that's what tunes is doing.
<s_r> tcn what could we do?
<Tril> new paragidms would be more useful if they would tie in to the others, though
<tcn> i'm pretty comfortable with existing languages though
<s_r> don't Forth and the others have it covered?
<tcn> someone could always come up with some weird idea
<tcn> and revolutionize programming
<_QZ> what does it mean when fsck says "inode has zero dtime: FIXED"?
<tcn> oh it always does that when you shutdown prematurely
06:00pm
<_QZ> ya i know, but can it ever mean u just lost a file?
<tcn> i dunno, did you lose one?
<_QZ> i dunno
<tcn> it's probably nothing, qz
<tcn> I think ext2fs probably does suck, though :)
<tcn> checking it is awful slow..
<s_r> tcn: what's better, ufs?
<Tril> suck = requires to shut down? yeah.. it's not designed for being crashed
<_QZ> hdc: lost interrupt
<_QZ> ok what does that mean? :)
<tcn> haha
<tcn> can you still access hdc?
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> it wont mount
<tcn> weird
<Tril> it means there is phyiscal problem with hdc.  power cord, interface cord, or the drive is damaged.
<Tril> alternately, you just loaded a module for a device which conflicts with hdc's IRQ.
<tcn> does it also have scsi?
<s_r> tcn do you think Forth is "weird" compared to conventional HLLs?
* Tril/#TUNES is away: (blah) [BX-MsgLog Off]
<tcn> definitely
<tcn> stacks used to be unheard of
<tcn> forth is more like a machine than a language
<s_r> tcn have you considered developing your own language?
<tcn> yup
<s_r> did you stop because you thought you'd be reinventing someone's wheel?>
<s_r> or what?
<tcn> then I discovered forth
<tcn> :)
06:10pm
<s_r> hehe
<tcn> eventually I started to think about developing a language again..
<s_r> did you ever look at Oberon?
<tcn> forth really straightened me out, though
<_QZ> phew it mounted
<s_r> oberon?
<tcn> yeah, i've seen the ide & floppy drivers for oberon (written in oberon, of course)
<tcn> kinda pascal-ish :)
<s_r> abi: oberon is a language that is meant to extend Modula and Pascal. It was developed by Niklaus Wirth and others.
<s_r> tcn can i see the code for those?
<abi> s_r: bugger all, i dunno
<tcn> abi: oberon?
<abi> i heard oberon was a language that is meant to extend Modula and Pascal. It was developed by Niklaus Wirth and others.
<_QZ> oberon is like modula2
<s_r> qz: what's your fav. language?
<_QZ> depends on what im coding
<s_r> the more i think about it i see the inadequacies of C and C++
<s_r> qz OS/user programs
<_QZ> for an os i prefer asm
<_QZ> for programs i prefer c
<_QZ> and when its properly integrated into the system i prefer forth or logo
<tcn> logo.. there's an oddball language :)
<s_r> someone someday is going to develop a language that will revolutionize computing
<s_r> i wonder when :P
<tcn> lisp was a revolution
<tcn> C wasn't
<s_r> tcn maybe it will be you
<tcn> nah
<tcn> so where's your idea?
<_QZ> tcn: logo is almost the reverse of forth
<s_r> hmm this Oberon code look like someone looked a bunch of C code and tried his hardest to change it in small ways so that it was the same in functionality but different in little aspects, as if someone wanted C code with a different name and face
<s_r> tcn i'm going to email you
<_QZ> i wrote all the logo functions in forth on my hp48
<s_r> lisp and forth are close to being truly OO
<_QZ> i even made the turtle picture :)
<s_r> err scratch that last comment
<tcn> s/oo/perfect/ ?
<s_r> heh
<tcn> there is OO lisp and OO forth
<tcn> OOF.. hehe
<s_r> qz write parts of your kernel in Forth
<s_r> oof?
<tcn> yeah, that's what oo forth is called, OFF
<tcn> OOF
<tcn> I think it just involves this.kind.of.thing :)
06:20pm
<_QZ> anyone know howto verify an rpm package?
<tcn> rpm --help
<tcn> I hate those stupid --commands
<_QZ> hehe
<_QZ> well rpm --verify seems obvious
<tcn> especially when there aren't single-letter alternatives
<_QZ> but it says gtk is not installed
<_QZ> it says i have nothing installed
<hcf> and lynx uses -long_word
<tcn> hcf: that's not as bad
<_QZ> rpm has single letter alternatives
<_QZ> its kinda kewl how everything that im using right now isnt installed :)
<tcn> packages are stupid
<_QZ> u dont have to tell me that
<_QZ> im against them
<tcn> all we need are binaries
<s_r> just compile and place the binaries and files in the right place
<_QZ> i prefer compiling source code
<tcn> so you don't have to compile if you don't want to
<tcn> compiling things like gcc and glibc really sucks!
<s_r> gcc is abloat
<tcn> hog
<s_r> wtf does gcc have to be that big
<tcn> heh
<_QZ> ya i have compiled gcc, havent tried glibc
<s_r> try compiling X
<tcn> X must be this worst :)
<tcn> the
<_QZ> never tried X either
<s_r> tcn: try make world on a _loaded_ BSD
<s_r> make sure to start at 9 pm
<s_r> and have it going all night
<tcn> last summer I tried building a linux system from scratch.. never finished.. hehe
<_QZ> haha
<_QZ> i think we have all tried to make our own linux
<s_r> tcn how do you mean, from scratch, like you got the src code and built it>?
<tcn> well I got into writing an os.. I said nevermind this..
<s_r> or just the binaries
<tcn> the source
<abi> the source is powerful but beware of its dark side
<tcn>  hahahahaha
<_QZ> heh
<s_r> remarq.com is nice
<tcn> and they were changing everything on me.. I'd spend a week downloading and building gcc or libc or the kernel, 2 weeks later they come out with a new version
<tcn> or i'd get the new version, only to find out it sucks
<_QZ> hmm freshen sounds like the option i need to be making rpm do right now
06:30pm
<tcn> this was about the time they went from libc5 to libc6
<tcn> i don't even have rpm
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us122.javanet.com])
<_QZ> oh crap it requires a filename
<s_r> tcn switch to BSD
<_QZ> i was hoping it would figure out what was installed and make sure all the pieces where still there :)
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us244.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
<tcn> I switched to bsd for a few weeks
<_QZ> living in the vt's sucks, i dont know how u guys do it
<s_r> vt's?
<tcn> hahah
<tcn> I actually programmed in X last weekend, qz
<_QZ> maybe if i could change vt's with ctrl-arrows like i change desktops in X
<s_r> tcn did you like BSD?
<tcn> qz: you CAN do that
<_QZ> how?
<tcn> you can also hit ctrl-printscreen for "switch to last vt"
<tcn> type 'dumpkeys|less'
<_QZ> ctrl-printscreen didnt work
<tcn> alt-prtsc
<s_r> try alt+F1
<s_r> or alt+F2
-:- water [water@ppp-tnt-89.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes
<s_r> or ctrl+alt+F2
<s_r> water: hi
<tcn> hey brain
<water> hey
<tcn> heh.. the brain is here
<water> hehe
<s_r> water what do you think of this name for an OS: ontologyOS?
<_QZ> s_r: i know howto change to a vt
<water> sr: why ontologyOS?
<water> what do ontologies have to do with os design?
<s_r> water i'm joking
<s_r> :P
<water> oh
<s_r> you like to talk about ontologies
<_QZ> s_r: u better be joking cuz no one will use an OS named that
<s_r> haha
* water/#tunes slaps s_r around with a sopping wet noodle.
<s_r> tcn: did you like BSD
<tcn> yeah, I kinda liked it.. but there are more programs available for linux, and for some reason it boots faster..
<s_r> tcn but then there's Retro :P
<tcn> yeah.. I didn't wanna screw around with unix hacking too much. Debian linux is easier to maintain than fbsd.
<s_r> bsd?
<abi> bsd is much more fun than Linux
<tcn> linux?
<abi> i heard linux was a fad
<tcn> debian linux?
<s_r> debian?
<abi> debian is harder to setup but so much easier to maintain
<s_r> hurd?
<tcn> gnu?
<abi> it has been said that gnu is twice as old as Tunes, with less innovation to show for it..
<s_r> have you tried HURD?
06:40pm
<tcn> no, you?
<s_r> nope
<s_r> i am looking into it
<s_r> it looks interesting
<tcn> hurd has been vapor as long as I've known.. I never really believed it would be finished :)
-:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Read error to water[ppp-tnt-89.tscnet.net]: Connection reset by peer)
<s_r> i want to know how they plan to incorporate user kernel changes without forcing the user kernel changes on other users
<s_r> it's really bugging me
<s_r> i want to understand how that will work
<tcn> i wonder if they even know
<tcn> there has to be some kind of uniform interface
-:- iepos [iepos@d1.t1-7.tecinfo.com] has joined #TUNES
<s_r> tcn have you considered writing your kernel in C++?
<_QZ> hehe
<s_r> C++?
<abi> C++ is a language that adds quite something to C, but in the end has no more value than C
<s_r> i would like to see C++ BriX
<s_r> BriX++
<_QZ> it always cracks me up when someone mentions writing an os in c++
<s_r> :)
<s_r> qz would go nuts if someone tried to port BriX to C++
<tcn> c++ ... haha
<tcn> i had a hard time just writing games in it
<tcn> "dammit, I can do the same thing with structs and pointers in C, and for some reason the code is 10 times smaller!"
<s_r> tcn does it crack you up when you hear professors spouting professions of C++'s "revolutionary" nature?
<tcn> i've never taken a c++ course
<tcn> tutored it once, but all they used of c++ was "cin >> ..." and "cout << ..."
<tcn> hahaha
<iepos> i'm never going to use fork() again 8(
<s_r> "C++ is the best language ever made! Brag about knowing it, students!"
<tcn> this college has a lousy CS dept.
<tcn> it's in the basement for a reason
06:50pm
<tcn> EET is on the 2nd floor, cause they're cool :)
<s_r> tcn become a professor and teach FORTH 101
<tcn> they're always building computers, microwave dishes, machines, cool shit like that.
<s_r> tcn designing circuitry?
<tcn> if I could go back 2 years I'd take EET
<tcn> anyways, I'm done with that college crap
<s_r> now you need a job
<tcn> got one
<tcn> no problem
<s_r> what kind, may i ask?
<tcn> illustrator :)
<tcn> also some hacking, reverse engineering, etc..
<s_r> cool
<s_r> that's cool shit
<s_r> decompile krnl386.exe
<tcn> there's not much of the cool stuff, thoguh :)
<s_r> i tried that once
<tcn> haaha
<s_r> i think it was originally coded in asm, it was somewhat readable
<s_r> i'm beginning to suppose most of windows 9x was made in asm
<s_r> MASM is supported but not widely used outside of Microsoft
<s_r> i've heard that NT was made in C though
<s_r> mostly
<tcn> anyways I'm mostly doing aircraft wiring diagrams.. boring, really :)
07:00pm
<tcn> I coulda got a job writing jet engine control programs in assembly
<s_r> why not Forth?
<tcn> because
<tcn> at least it's not ADA
<tcn> that woulda been military stuff.. for awhile I think all DoD stuff was required to be done in ADA
<s_r> tcn what do you think of Oberon? good? bad?
<tcn> object oriented pascal
07:10pm
<tcn> I don't see anything special about it
<s_r> hmmm
<s_r> Niklaus Wirth would call you a heretic :P
<tcn> maybe it's simpler than pascal, but I haven't used it
<s_r> tcn is biased for Forth
<tcn> I don't like pascal's syntax
<tcn> :=
<tcn> begin ... end
<tcn> too many words
<tcn> oh well, I gotta go
<tcn> send me that email about your idea, if ya want
-:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (sleep)
07:20pm
-:- SignOff s_r: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- SignOff iepos: #TUNES (iepos)
-:- Alaric [alaric@automan.ivision.co.uk] has joined #Tunes
<Alaric> Hello. Anybody awake? Fare? Long time no see if that is you there...
<Alaric> Echo
<Alaric> Echo
<Alaric> Hmmm... a deathly silence reigns here... bye folks...
-:- Alaric [alaric@automan.ivision.co.uk] has left #Tunes [Bye]
08:30pm
-:- SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
-:- water [water@ppp-tnt-144.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes
<water> quiet?
10:30pm
-:- water [water@ppp-tnt-144.tscnet.net] has left #tunes []
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0618
IRC log ended Fri Jun 18 00:00:01 1999