TUNES: No such nick/channel
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0825
TUNES: No such nick/channel
<ElGato> *purr*
<hcf> *hiss*
<ElGato> *meow*
<hcf> *spray*
<ElGato> *cat fight*
<ElGato> *win*
<hcf> as if
<ElGato> psh!
07:10am
<ElGato> HI FRIEND
<fare> LO
09:10am
<ElGato> LO FARE
<fare> HI HS
<ElGato> how's france?
<fare> hexagonal
<ElGato> cool cool
<ElGato> what are your latest ideas as far as the HLL goes?
<ElGato> have you settled on a language?
<fare> my latest idea: go out and have dinner
<fare> language: french or latin
<ElGato> :P
<ElGato> programming silly billy
09:20am
<ElGato> scheme or ml?
<fare> neither
<fare> or maybe both :)
<fare> the syntax doesn't matter;
<fare> the languages are mostly compatible (I wonder how poplog handles typing issue in popml)
<ElGato> i sure wish you would settle on something
<ElGato> why don't you just pick something and dump it later once you've bootstrapped
<fare> I like the poplog system; maybe just adopt it.
<fare> yeah, I wouldn't use it when it wasn't free software, but now that it is, it really looks darned attractive.
<ElGato> poplog does?
<fare> abi: poplog?
<abi> i heard poplog was now freely available at ftp://ftp.cs.bham.ac.uk/pub/dist/poplog/freepoplog.html
<ElGato> i hope your just interested in popml
<fare> why? I like the multilingual aspect of poplog
<ElGato> :/
<ElGato> fine fine just please settle on something
<fare> I don't like its being essentially single-threaded
<fare> that's something I'll have to find out about it: can it scale towards a concurrent system
<ElGato> fare: there's always gonna be one little thing wrong with a language
<ElGato> plus you're only using it to create a simple interpreter
<fare> yeah, but the general design of poplog looks quite nice.
<ElGato> use my idea :D scheme like language with a high level stack
<fare> EG: that's precisely what poplog does -- a high-level language (lisp mode available), with a high-level stack
<ElGato> then implement it for heavan's sake
09:30am
<hcf> fare: what r ur valid reasons for stalling?
<fare> no food
09:40am
<ElGato>  seriously fare
<ElGato> tunes is not going to go anywhere unless you preempt development and choose a language
<ElGato> without it's HLL tunes is not tunes
<fare> indeed
09:50am
<fare> I want a LISP dialect; but am not pleased with any existing one.
<hcf> choose the one ur least unpleased w/
<ElGato> yes
<fare> Scheme has clean aspects, and is fascist aspects, and lacks either a module system or libraries
<fare> CL has a lot of legacy, some of which oppose the expected reflective design
<fare> it also relies on a global type and package system that isn't quite adapted to dynamic distributed computing.
<fare> ML is very nice, but neither dynamic nor reflective
<fare> ISLISP and EuLISP tend to be compromises between CL and Scheme.
<ElGato> personally i think you should take scheme (you only need it for so little til you've created the HLL)
<hcf> fare: which one best fits the need?
10:00am
<ElGato> why don't you take one of them?
<fare> from the execution model point of view, I'd say ML!
<ElGato> ...
<fare> I'm currently studying poplog
<hcf> fare: study FASTER
<ElGato> we all want to see something happen
<ElGato> we want something to keep us going
<ElGato> if you just get this done it will create a snowballing effect
<hcf> fare: u have 1 week to decide, if the deadline is reached w/o a decision, scheme is chosen by default
10:10am
<ElGato> heh
<ElGato> :D
<ElGato> i like hcf's logic
<ElGato> hi sr
<sr> hey
<abi> niihau, sr
<ElGato> sr you got a good mp3 url?
<sr> mp3.lycos.com
<ElGato> no no no
<sr> there used to be a server on necrosys.net:8000
<sr> do you know any?
<ElGato> not that kind of mp3 site
<ElGato> i mean like...well something less legal
<sr> try IRC
<ElGato> i had one but he has very few now
<sr> ElGato: get Mcafee firewall
10:30am
<ElGato> why?
<sr> it's cool =)
<ElGato> yo fare
<ElGato> talk to be bro
<ElGato> :D
<fare> well, I guess it'll be some Scheme dialect, then
<fare> or at least include a strong Scheme-compatibility mode...
<ElGato> how do i implement an nfa with empty string transitions? 
<fare> uh?
<fare> it's not generally problematic...
<fare> or else, you transform your nfa to only have non-empty transitions...
<ElGato> yeah
<ElGato> i don't see the point in having them except for very special cases
<ElGato> like begin emptystring end
<sr> what is an nfa?
<ElGato> non-deterministic finite automata
10:40am
<hcf> fare: ok, now pick a scheme dialect
<sr> elgato your ideas for a compiler are evolving
<ElGato> yes they are
<ElGato> i fear they are becoming ever more like the tunes HLL though ;)
<sr> have you a working prototype?
<ElGato> hellz no
<sr> mmmm taco bell
<sr> grande meal
<ElGato> what you trippen on?!
<sr> "elgato" reminds me of eating burritos at taco bell
<ElGato> :D
<ElGato> good...everyone has a little mexican inside of them
<hcf> sr: yeah, theres probly cat meat in em
<ElGato> D:
<ElGato> test hcf, female
<ElGato> jnz tell_elgato
<ElGato> :D
<sr> mov eax, [hcf]
<sr> cmp eax, 0x12yearoldasiangirl
<ElGato> that would be funny if there wasn't a 0x and it was followed by a branch instruction
<ElGato> but your programming humor lacks taste sr what can i say?
<sr> i still wonder why you thought hcf was an asian girl :P
<ElGato> it was a joke :P>->O
10:50am
<hcf> a joke and a fantasy
<ElGato> hcf: parse my asm code 
<hcf> the test result is 0
<ElGato> oh
* ElGato/#tunes was hoping some long forget tunes guy got hcf pregnant and abi was born
<ElGato> :D
<hcf> s/forget/forgotten/
<ElGato> yes
<sr> www.tunes.org/~fare/archive/mp3.html
<ElGato> page not found
<sr> it used to be there
<ElGato> if sick of you always giving me bad links sr
<ElGato> i hate you i hate you i hate you
<sr> heh
<sr> i was kidding :P fare doesn't know an mp3 from a lambda theory
<ElGato> :P >->(:
11:00am
* ElGato/#tunes is looking at pictures of who he expects his fare
<ElGato> suspects is
<fare> EG: uh?
<hcf> fare: picked a dialect yet?
<fare> there are pictures of me on my page, for the curious...
<ElGato> http://www.tunes.org/~fare/files/
<ElGato> pic/faguire1.jpg
<ElGato> there aren't any new pics :P
<sr> www.tunes.org/~fare/pictures/fare1.jpg
<fare> ok, I'm sick of looking for the Right(TM) programming language. I'll take Scheme, and modify it... in the end, it might be a completely different LISP dialect. I'll freely borrow from CL, ISLISP, EuLISP, Dylan, ML, Perl, etc.
<fare> EG: want new pics? by me a web cam!
<ElGato> nm
<ElGato> !!!
<ElGato> fare!!!
<sr> everyone knows computer science reached its pinnacle in Forth
* ElGato/#tunes ^5's sr
<ElGato> fare: comb your hair atleast dude
* sr/#tunes ^5s ElGato
<sr> team DISCOVERY CHANNEL!
<hcf> fare: ok, i'l expect daily progress reports, now get cracking
<fare> EG: N
<hcf> fare: ur deadline is 1 month
<fare> cracking?
<abi> cracking is boring
<fare> oh
11:10am
<fare> hcf: what's cracking?
<abi> cracking is boring
<fare> abi: shuddup, bitch!
<hcf> fare: s/cracking/(going|to work)/
<hcf> abi: forget cracking
<abi> hcf: I forgot cracking
<hcf> crack [colloq] to move with speed, used chiefly in the phrase 'get cracking'
11:20am
<sr> SrServ is my bot
<sr> he serves an mp3 archive
<SrServ> 13My Fserve is up. 13Ratio: 10Off13. 13Trigger: 10!sr13. 13Files: 1075913. 13Snagged:10 0b13. 13Max CPS: 10n/a13. 13Online: 10013/10213. 13Sends: 10013/10213. 13Queues: 10013/10013. 13Accessed:10 013 time(s). 13Note:10 some stuff13. 13«-10{Pö|årí§10}13-»
<hcf> sr: turn off the fucking color crap
11:30am
<hcf> ElGato: wtf?
<ElGato> a funny picture a made
<hcf> ElGato: iv told u b4 dumbass, i prefer not 2b pushed crap
<ElGato> :(
<hcf> ElGato: why dont u put up a lengua progress report on ur tunes hp
<ElGato> yea yes i heard
<ElGato> ok ok
* ElGato/#tunes is sorry
11:50am
<gatoLengua`> ooops
12:00pm
* dtm/#tunes comes for the software, and stays for the song
<dtm> fare what exactly do you think you're doing, concealing yourself behind that nick
<gatoLengua`> in fgetc(char *s, bla bla bla) what is the *s for?
<smkl> for generating a runtime segfault
<gatoLengua`> :P
<gatoLengua`> then what?
<abi> then what are my real reasons for using assembly? :)
<gatoLengua`> the man says gets is "char *gets(char *s)
<gatoLengua`> how is it used
<dtm> who here is interested in helping me come up with y2k testing criteria?
<dtm> I have a full document on gnu/linux compliancy and i'm the official canonical source for gnu y2k info.
<dtm> i have a C source checking tool for Emacs that perhaps some of you would like to help me figure out?
<gatoLengua`> damnit it stops at eof or newline
<smkl> gatoLengua`: try to decide what function you want to ask the question about
<gatoLengua`> i want it to take in the entire string
<gatoLengua`> how can i do that?
<Plundis> dtm: seems pretty interesting. tell me more.
<dtm> Plundis:   well RMS wants me to be the gnu y2k coordinator.  i can send you my document so far.
<smkl> gatoLengua`: try fread
<dtm> you can see the preexisting one assembled by the gnu y2k "technical" guy, Koos Schutt, at http://www.gnu.org/software/year2000.html and year2000-list.html
<dtm> but that's all gnu has.
<dtm> so i need to be the canonical source
<dtm> i need to develop that list of compliant apps, per category:   compliant, noncompliant, untested, and unknown
<dtm> i can dcc you my document.
12:20pm
* _250r14/#Tunes is back
<dtm> _250r14:   what do you think you're doing mister
<_250r14> waiting for the pizza to be baken
<dtm> _250r14:    while it bakens, you are required to review my gnu y2k mastery
<dtm> since you have nothing better to do .... await the email transmission of my document so as to subvert your lame firewall
<dtm> and then observe my documentation technique
<_250r14> dtm: which page?
<dtm> _250r14:   the only one i just sent you
<dtm> plundis has disappeared, it seems.
12:30pm
<_250r14> plundis?
<abi> plundis is the ruler of the known world. I control this world at the top of Plundis's fingertips.
<_250r14> dtm: this is a compendium of links.
<dtm> _250r14:   neat
<dtm> _250r14:    observe the link to Carillon
<_250r14> dtm: looks nice as such, but the title is misleading
<dtm> follow it, too
<dtm> _250r14:   why's that
<_250r14> because it's metainformation rather than information
<dtm> _250r14:   how's your pizza
<dtm> _250r14:    what?
<dtm> _250r14:    metainformation is information, isn't it?
<_250r14> dtm: the oven wouldn't heat unless you set the timer, which I didn't do :( :( :(
<_250r14> yes it is
<dtm> _250r14:    well then get to it!
<dtm> _250r14:    so it's not misleading
<_250r14> still, it's not information about the same thing
<_250r14> still: "information about a" is not the same as "metainformation about a"
<dtm> _250r14:    what are you talking about man :)  i have my own information in there too
<dtm> _250r14:   not to mention the fact that it's not even done!
<dtm> _250r14:    so anyhow     take a look at Carillon
<dtm> _250r14:     it'll have my summary in the document
<_250r14> maybe there lacks some meta-meta-information, so as to know what's more important to look at
<dtm> _250r14:    my document will have my summary, rather
<dtm> _250r14:     i thiknk youu're blind fare
<_250r14> there are 3 pointers under Carillon
<dtm> _250r14:    did the red html highlighting not make it obvious enough
<dtm> yes so follow the one that takes you to carillon
<_250r14> red? lynx doesn't show any red highlighting!
<dtm> _250r14:    forgive me fare
<dtm> _250r14:   and forgive lynx
* dtm/#tunes gets out the paddle
<dtm> fare where do your parents live    i think i should have a talk with them
<dtm> did you set your pizza timer
<farerotfl> why did you not use <em> like you should?
<dtm> because that WOULDN'T HAVE MADE IT RED, FARE
<dtm> sorry!  :)
12:40pm
<farerotfl> the oven is in pre-heat; pizza will be put in it NOW
<dtm> ok GET TO IT
* dtm/#tunes requires Taco Bell
<hcf> abi: forget then what
<abi> hcf: I forgot then what
<farerotfl> dtm: currently they are in britanny
<Fare> you could use *both* <em> and <font color...>
<hcf> Fare: any progress on the HLL yet?
<Fare> also, it's no use to say "bad linux distribution" for individual packages!!!!
<Fare> (well, ok, little use)
<Fare> hcf: no, the pizza is not baked yet
<dtm> do you guys know of a tool that can automatically render html into postscript, just like the way the 'print' function does in Netscape?
12:50pm
<Fare> a2ps
<Fare> lynx, too ;->
<hcf> dtm: may be something here for u, http://web.canlink.com/helpdesk/noframes/convert.html
<Fare> lessee if the pizza is ready...
01:00pm
<Fare> yum!
<AlonzoTG> om
01:20pm
<dtm> lynx doesn't render to postscript, silly
<dtm> hcf:   thanks
<Fare> it does render to text, that can be easily printed
<hcf> dtm: anything useful to u there?
* gatoLengua/#tunes doesn't know how to balance how much to put in each .c file and each corresponing .h file
<gatoLengua> ie lexer.c,lexer.h;parser.c,lexer.h
<gatoLengua> er
<gatoLengua> parser.h at the end rather
01:30pm
<gatoLengua> #include "lexer.h"
<gatoLengua> #include "parser.h"
<gatoLengua> void scan(FILE *fptr) 
<gatoLengua>   {
<gatoLengua>   char buffer[BSIZE];
<gatoLengua> 
<gatoLengua>   fread(buffer, 1, BSIZE, fptr);
<gatoLengua>   parse(get_token());
<gatoLengua>   }
<gatoLengua> er get_token(buffer)
<gatoLengua> that's all that's in lexer.c
<gatoLengua> is that ok?
* Fare/#Tunes is not Y2K compliant
<Fare> gatolengua: that's scary: how do you track the state of partially filled buffers?
<gatoLengua> it's all in lexer.h
<Fare> gato: use OCAML or FORTH -- you'll find it much easier to factor your programs in well-separated modules.
<gatoLengua> fare: two pointers
<Fare> gato: the fread needn't manage to read all BZISE bytes!
<Fare> man fread
<gatoLengua> why?
<Fare> because there is shit!
<gatoLengua> i want bsize bytes to be filled into the buffer
<Fare> abi: because there?
<abi> rumour has it because there is an initial overhead
<Fare> oh!
<gatoLengua> all i wanted to know was if lexer.c was too skimpy on code
<gatoLengua> !!!
<Fare> you just can't, least you read from /dev/zero
<dtm> hcf:   i'm trying....  stand by
<Fare> also, you'll run into trouble for tokens that span two buffers...
<Fare> gato: did I tell you that you plain sucked, already? ;->
<gatoLengua> mabye you didn't catch that what i asked before
<gatoLengua> all i wanted to know was if lexer.c was too skimpy on code
<gatoLengua> yes or no?
<Fare> mu
<hcf> gatoLengua: Fare cant decide on /anything/
<gatoLengua> or should i put it in one headerfile?
<Fare> size doesn't matter. design does.
<gatoLengua> ok then
<gatoLengua> two files it shall be
01:40pm
<gatoLengua> i don't see anything wrong with my code either
<gatoLengua> mabye your just predjuduced against my l33t bracing style
<Fare> if your code is what you've pasted, it plain sucks.
<Fare> what if a token is cut at buffer limit?
<Fare> what if you reach EOF?
<gatoLengua> fare you haven't even seen lexer.h
<Fare> I've seen the unguarded fread, and it's more than enough!
<gatoLengua> and i think i forgot a crucial thing ;)
<gatoLengua> brb
<Fare> unguarded fread == error
<Fare> it's funny how C is an error-oriented language
<Fare> everything is DESIGNED to induce you into error!
<gatoLengua> nah i didn't forget anything
<gatoLengua> how is it ungaurded?
<gatoLengua> EOF is a token silly billy
<gatoLengua> sorta
<Fare> you don't even check its return value!!!
<Fare> EOF is NOT a token with fread, dude!
<gatoLengua> not with fread...but with get_token!
<Fare> bummer!
<Fare> HS: you plain suck. Do you understand the C library at all?
<gatoLengua> i wish...the man pages don't tell really too much about what fread returns
<gatoLengua> :(
<gatoLengua> size_t?
<Fare> a fread whose value is not checked is _bogus_, period.
<gatoLengua> what is size_t?
<Fare> someone who uses it that way goes astray from the Tao.
<gatoLengua> D:
<gatoLengua> what is size_t damn you!!!
* Fare/#Tunes hits gatoLengua with a POSIX manual!
<hcf> Fare: C supports TAO?
<Fare> hcf: the TAO is everywhere, even in shit.
* gatoLengua/#tunes hesitantely goes and "info libc" (DIE!)
<Fare> hcf: from wherever you are, you can follow the Tao.
<Fare> hcf: from C, too, you can follow the Tao, although the Tao doesn't remain within C.
<Fare> HS: M-x info
<Fare> Never try not to RTFM. It won't work.
<hcf> Fare: he always tries #tunes 1st
01:50pm
<Fare> Grrr!
* gatoLengua/#tunes hugs fare :D
* Fare/#Tunes charges gatoLengua $100 per incident
* gatoLengua/#tunes sees his "error" and fixes it
<gatoLengua> fare: accept the dcc
<Fare> can't
<gatoLengua> why?
<Fare> firewall
<gatoLengua> oh
<gatoLengua> then i shall put the picture up on my hp
<gatoLengua> later i will
<gatoLengua> fare: you would look like elvis if you had side burns
<Fare> i.e. dead?
<gatoLengua> uh...no
<gatoLengua> you would look like elvis alive
<Fare> i.e. non-existent?
* gatoLengua/#tunes has a picture of himself around here somewhere
<gatoLengua> n/m fare
<gatoLengua> fare: so if fread returns 0 then print and error message?
02:00pm
* Fare/#Tunes hits HS with a clue stick!
<Fare> RTFM!
<gatoLengua> i did i did!
<Fare> why don't you just use OCAML!?
<Fare> no, you didn't!
<gatoLengua> cause im stubburn
<Fare> read it, carefully!
<gatoLengua> fare: how do you think i found aout about it returning 0?!
<Fare> learn programming on a real language, and when you're done, learn the intricacies of C!
<Fare> gato: it maybe return 42, too!
<Fare> bummer!
<gatoLengua> but that's for an EOF!
* Fare/#Tunes hits HS with a second clue-stick!
<hcf> Fare: stop wasting ur clue-sticks
<Fare> gato: get a second-hand brain. AOL resells some.
<gatoLengua> fare what ws the second one for
<gatoLengua> i don't need to worry about EOF's!!!
<Fare> yessir
<Fare> yes you do.
<gatoLengua> grrr
<gatoLengua> fare:no i don't
<Fare> this is not #C_weenie !
<Fare> gato: man fread, yet again
<Fare> gato: if you don't know how to use the function, don't!
<gatoLengua> !!!
<Fare> man fread, section "RETURN VALUES", second paragraph
<gatoLengua> !!!
<gatoLengua> man fread and info libc contradict each other
<Fare> Get a C handbook, or pay for courses in C, or read existing C sources, or stop using C.
<hcf> gatoLengua: why rnt u asking efnet/#c for help?
<gatoLengua> hahaha
<gatoLengua> have you ever been to #c on efnet?
<hcf> gatoLengua: no real reason to go in
<gatoLengua> all they do there is argue about religion and bigotry and such
<smkl> try #c++, it's clearly better
02:10pm
<gatoLengua> as a matter of just compiler desing, if an error happens to occur should i just print and error message and return?
<Fare> gato: both the info page and the man page are correct!!!
<gatoLengua> then i must be seeing things!!!
<gatoLengua> :D
<Fare> gato: some compilers implement error recovery, but obviously, your first try would better focus on getting things done correctly at all!
<Fare> gato: then your brain needs repair. Ask bicycle repairman!
* gatoLengua/#tunes kicks fare in the ass :D
* Fare/#Tunes being an AI, has no as
* Fare/#Tunes is obviously an AI that can't type properly
<gatoLengua> we aren't talking about lexical errors here
<gatoLengua> just io errors
<Fare> your brain has input errors, obviously
<gatoLengua> yes indeed
02:20pm
<gatoLengua> let us never fight again
<gatoLengua> :)
<Fare> a)bort, r)etry, i)gnore
* Fare/#Tunes retroactively aborts gatoLengua
<gatoLengua> r
<gatoLengua> r
<gatoLengua> r
* Fare/#Tunes is for retroactive abortion
<gatoLengua> no!
<Fare> gato: make a case analysis
<gatoLengua> hmmm?
<gatoLengua> fare reminds me of seinfeld
<gatoLengua> seinfeld sees some little thing in a girl that isn't right and it bothers him so he dsicusses it with his friends and then dumps her
<gatoLengua> fare sees something alittle wrong with a programming language, he discusses it, and then gets rid of it :)
02:30pm
<Fare> hcf: the oberon reference site has moved.
<hcf> Fare: ok
<hcf> Fare: so, hows the HLL coming? ;)
<gatoLengua> :D
<Fare> hcf: hum. Dunno where to begin from.
<Fare> lessee how retro implements its FORTH...
<gatoLengua> print
<gatoLengua> eval
<gatoLengua> er
<gatoLengua> read 
<gatoLengua> eval
<gatoLengua> print
<gatoLengua> and loop! :)
02:50pm
* Fare/#Tunes hits gL with a copy of SICP
* gatoLengua/#tunes wasn't hit cause he is away
<gatoLengua> ok then one little ity bity question about c more
<gatoLengua> very simple
<gatoLengua> exrremely simpile
<gatoLengua> how do i exit a program anywhere in it
<Fare> gato: ok, to simplify things, I won't answer C questions anymore; only Scheme or OCAML or other HLL questions.
<gatoLengua> ;)
<gatoLengua> ah shucks
<Fare> man 3 exit
<smkl> system("reboot");
<gatoLengua> hahaha
<Fare> system("kill -9 $PPID");
<Fare> exec("/bin/true");
<Fare> exec("/bin/false");
<hcf> gatoLengua: why dont use a PL that u know?!!!
<Fare> hcf: because he knows none!
<gatoLengua> D:
<Fare> gato: you should be learning Visual BASIC...
<gatoLengua> i just don't know much of libc that's all
<gatoLengua> no!
<gatoLengua> i shall never nor have i ever learnt any thing that resembles basic
<gatoLengua> never!
<Fare> I like the execl("/bin/true",NULL);
<gatoLengua> you hear me!?
<Fare> gato: then don't learn C.
<Fare> C is very near BASIC.
<gatoLengua> damn brb
<Fare> It's the same fundamental imperative programming paradigm.
<Fare> (well, ok, C is nearer to 1990's BASIC than to 1960's BASIC).
03:00pm
<gatoLengua> ok then
<gatoLengua> well back to work
<hcf> gatoLengua: is there /any/ PL's main lib u know?
<Fare> hcf: I guess he knows the Scheme standard library ;->
<gatoLengua> ...uh if only nasm had a library
<gatoLengua> fare: well that's going a bit fat
<gatoLengua> far
<gatoLengua> i kinda skimped over one for book
<gatoLengua> skimmed rather
<Fare> gato: do you know Apple ][ monitor entry points?
<hcf> Fare: wernt his scheme questions less dumb than his C q's?
<hcf> Beholder!
<Fare> hcf: scheme has no standard library, so he knows everything there is to know about it
<Beholder> Hey all
<Fare> (well, this is becoming less true with SRFI's)
<gatoLengua> i don't have an apple {#include "lexer.h"
<gatoLengua> #include "parser.h"
<gatoLengua> void scan(FILE *fptr) 
<gatoLengua>   {
<gatoLengua>   char buffer[BSIZE];
<gatoLengua>   fread(buffer, 1, BSIZE, fptr);
<gatoLengua>   parse(get_token());
<gatoLengua>   }
<gatoLengua> uh
<gatoLengua> wtf
<gatoLengua> i didn't mean to do that
<Fare> ah!
<gatoLengua> i told you
<hcf> #tunes should /kb on C code paste
<gatoLengua> that was an accident
<Fare> thanks for giving me a good pretense to /kick you!
<Fare> listen, if I kick myself when I do such accidents, I may kick you, too!
<gatoLengua> the weird thing was, my fingers were far away from ctrl-v
<Fare> hcf: I wouldn't want to be /kb'd for pasting execl("/bin/true",NULL);
<Fare> ctrl-v?
* Fare/#Tunes is scared!
<Beholder> ctrl-ins does it too... if you're on a windows client
<gatoLengua> :(
<Fare> ouch!
<gatoLengua> fare: i can't go on the internet with my computer
<gatoLengua> i have a winmodem :(
<Fare> that's no excuse. Sell it, and get a linmodem!
* Beholder/#tunes feels sorry for gato...
<gatoLengua> 1. no one will buy it 2. im dirt poor right now
<hcf> Fare: ok, whatcha got on the HLL so far?
<gatoLengua> (bad analogy sorry)
<Fare> 1. exchange it for a slower modem that works under linux.
<gatoLengua> as soon as i scrape some money together im gonna get a winmodem
<gatoLengua> ...
<gatoLengua> or i might wait for dsl
<Beholder> gato:  Don't listen to fare, if Windows works to get your work done and your ideas down, it's fine... assuming you didn't pay for it and you pirate everything.
<gatoLengua> it'll be here in one month
<gatoLengua> it came with from dell
<gatoLengua> it came with it
<gatoLengua> luckily i can do all my dev on bespin
<Beholder> Warez:  The original free software movement (TM)... SoftICE:  Opensource whenever you want it(TM) ;)
<gatoLengua> SoftICE
<Fare> I'm trying to understand retro's forth interpreter structure. Looks like a main loop that calls every subword in the current word!
<gatoLengua> now that was a nice debugger
<Beholder> Gato:  Sorry Win32Dasm I guess is more current
03:10pm
* gatoLengua/#tunes sits in the corner ashamed :(
<Fare> hum. Native Oberon boots from DOS.
<Fare> DOS, the original boot loader!
<Beholder> Oberon?
<abi> Oberon is a language that is meant to extend Modula and Pascal. It was developed by Niklaus Wirth and others.
* gatoLengua/#tunes didn't catch it before...what will the HLL be in?
<gatoLengua> scheme?
<abi> scheme is a badass dialect of lisp or ((nearly) (perfect))
<Beholder> Fare: Still thinkin bootable scheme is the way to go with Tunes?
<Fare> Beh: what else do you propose?
<Fare> maybe pliant?
<gatoLengua> beholder: please don't say anything
<Fare> hum, too much C dependent, and not compatible with anything
<gatoLengua> yes far it is a wonderful idea
<gatoLengua> fare rather
<Beholder> Fare: Hehe.  Nope.  I was just wondering if you had changed your goals lately.
<Fare> Beh: I don't like Scheme much, but it's all I see that fits the initial bill
<Fare> (somehow)
<Fare> maybe another LISP dialect? hum.
<Beholder> Fare:  You didn't write that scheme was almost perfect (according to ABI)?
<Fare> no
<gatoLengua> fare: a short while ago you lover scheme
<Beholder> Fare:  I guess there are many lisp dialects, do any others fit the bill better at this point?
<Fare> poplog really looks nice.
<Fare> and it looks like it has limited C dependencies, too
<Beholder> Which means?
<Fare> which means it's a nice architecture to get inspiration from
<Fare> maybe reuse it, if someone here likes it
<gatoLengua> are you still going to implement it in scheme?
03:20pm
<Beholder> So the future of OS's lies in the underlying language that it's created with?
<gatoLengua> beholder: no, getting actual work done on it ;)
<Beholder> Lengua?
<abi> hmmm... Lengua is a pure, fully oo, SEXP language by hickserv/elgato
<Beholder> Ahh, now I know where I heard that before ;)
<eihrul> probably fare
<gatoLengua> ABI: Lengua is also high level stack based
<abi> okay, gatoLengua.
<eihrul> er, oops... think i took that statement out of context
<gatoLengua> abi: lengua is also dynamically statically typed :)
<abi> okay, gatoLengua.
<Beholder> Eih:  Yeah I was wondering what Lengua was :)  
<eihrul> methinks he's going to have a hard time stuffing all that stuff into a clean and pure language, imho
<gatoLengua> hehehe
<gatoLengua> i bet i will
<gatoLengua> oh well we'll just see won't we?
<eihrul> you have to learn somehow, right? :)
<gatoLengua> yeppers
<hcf> abi: lengua is also dirty and impure
<abi> okay, hcf.
<eihrul> much better
<gatoLengua> D:
<gatoLengua> abi: Lengua is a pure, fully oo, functional, high level stack based language
<abi> ...but lengua is a pure, fully oo, SEXP language by hickserv/elgato or high level stack based or dynamically statically typed :) or dirty and impure...
03:30pm
* Fare/#Tunes is back
<dtm> hcf:  thanks a lot for the link -- it's helping!  html2ps!
<hcf> dtm: np
04:10pm
<dtm> Fare3053: what are you up to now
04:50pm
<dtm> KorGrey:   hi
05:00pm
<dtm> liar is back
<dtm> liar:   what brought on your affinity for such a derogatory name
05:10pm
<liar> heh
<eihrul> is it derogatory if you gloat about it?
<liar> haha
<dtm> eihrul:    that's pretty much what i was wondering
05:20pm
<ElGato> fare: im really factoring my code now! =)
05:30pm
<dtm> ElGato:   whats up
<ElGato> hey 
<ElGato> not much
<ElGato> and you?
<liar> how do i rotate in gimp?
<dtm> still working
<dtm> liar  pull down the menu and click 'rotate'
<liar> dtm: do u have the gimp?
<hcf> liar: on its cmdline type: rot <obj> <degrees>
<dtm> liar:   yes i do.  see that thing on the side of your desk, or perhaps built in to your keyboard?  that's called a mouse.  if it doesn't have three buttons then never mind.
05:40pm
<dtm> you right click on the image and you'll see all the menus relevant to image manipulation
<liar> ah damnit, there the menu is :)
<dtm> you found it!
<liar> i thought i was missing all of its features
<dtm> i see   i thought that at first
<liar> whats sad is it was that way in the per-1.0 version that i used alot before i got whatever this is in rh6
<liar> this piece of crap will only let me rotate in 4 fixed degrees on the menu
<liar> hcf what is obj?
<hcf> liar: the object to rotate
<liar> duh, but how do i get its name or whatever 
<liar> its not the name in the window
<dtm> liar:    do you really think that GIMP does't allow arbitrary rotational degrees?  or is it that you're insolent?
<dtm> perhaps you're just being obstinant, blind, or impatient.
* dtm/#tunes dcc's liar some m&m's
<liar> image..transforms..rotate
<dtm> liar:   maybe there's another function that allows arbitrary degrees
<liar> it only has 0, 90, 180 and 270
<dtm> maybe you should spend more than 5 minutes on it.
<dtm> maybe GIMP is more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
* dtm/#tunes pats liar on the head
<eihrul> the acronym is kind of misleading
<liar> dtm: hey prick unless u can show me howto do it than shut up
05:50pm
<liar> there we go
<dtm> liar:    I think you have a major problem, liar.
<liar> its tools..transform
<liar> not rotate u dink
<dtm> liar:    How about unless you're patient or wise enough to figure out a plain simple intuitive piece of software, you can shut the hell up?
<dtm> That's just a possible idea.
<liar> dink
<dtm> poor poor liar
<hcf> poor mormon liar
<dtm> cursed with the affliction of relying on IRC for his personal relationships
<dtm> real life is *so* *hard*
<dtm> :)
<dtm> must be a geographical, or socioeconomic, depravity
<dtm> coz i'm sure we could all agree that liar is intelligent enough to scour his environment for a friend to treat well.
<dtm> hcf:  you're in portland, me?
<dtm> that's where one of my pals from Stampede lives
<hcf> dtm: belfast area
<hcf> dtm: the hostname is a javanet thing
<dtm> i see
<dtm> in what state is belfast
<hcf> belfast maine
<dtm> oh cool   i lived in Augusta and Bar Harbor for a while
<dtm> the mac linux m68k guy is in MELUG
<dtm> are you in MELUG
<dtm> maine has the best //gs users group too
<dtm> well they were really good at one point :)
<hcf> im not in any UG
06:00pm
<dtm> i see
06:10pm
<AlonzoTG> om
<liar> doesnt print screen take a screen shot in win98?
<dtm> good luck with that one, liar!
<dtm> you have my best wishes in cracking that mind-bending case.
<dtm> and thanks for adding your wizardlike intellect to the collective consciousness of the TUNES organization!  ;)
06:20pm
<liar> are u always a prick or did yer mom just break off her sexual relationship with u?
<dtm> there just might be a similar question in store for YOU, mr liar!
<dtm> one JUST might ask you the same thing!
<dtm> are you still living with your parents?
<liar> no, are u?
<dtm> not even close.
<dtm> how old are ya?
<dtm> i mean, physically.
06:30pm
<liar> 18
<hcf> dtm: dont bother, he lies
<dtm> hcf:   is that a fact?  ;}
<dtm> hcf:   does your nick mean 'halt; catch fire' ?
<dtm> where is that phrase from anyway
<dtm> hcf:   so what's up now?  how's the weather in maine
<dtm> how are the lobster
<hcf> i dont care for lobster
<dtm> last i knew, COA was giving the lobstermen hell about overharvesting
<hcf> the weather is fine
<dtm> ahhh
<hcf> tad hot today
<dtm> where are you from Mt Desert Island
<ElGato> www.besin.cx/~dave/yay.JPG
<ElGato> that's me :D
<dtm> woo hoo
<dtm> you mean 'bespin'?
<ElGato> ooops
<dtm> oh honey that's lovely!  you finally got yourself a new friend!
<hcf> dtm: use http://www.indo.com/distance/
<ElGato> your dcc is messed up dtm
<dtm> i wonder why
06:40pm
<dtm> yay
<dtm> BAHAHHA
<dtm> did you make that elgato
<dtm> IT'S GORGEOUS
<ElGato> yeah
<dtm> where'd you get that pic
<dtm> so it's 40 miles to Bar Harbor for ya, hcf
<dtm> what is the name 'bespin' from
<ElGato> www.tunes.org/~fare/pictures/fare.jpg i think
<dtm> heheheh
<dtm> WHAT A GOOB
<ElGato> no...
<ElGato> i can't remember
<ElGato> im gonna put my real picture up
<dtm> hehhe
<ElGato> wait no
<ElGato> im gonna take that one off...done
<ElGato> im gonna wait til i grow my hair out :d
<ElGato> :D
<ElGato> www.bespin.cx/~dave/load9.JPG
<hcf> ElGato: shity job at putting the female in
<ElGato> more of my art
<ElGato> yeah well all i have to work with is ms-paint
<ElGato> give me some slack
<hcf> ElGato: no
<hcf> ElGato: do it right or dont do it
<ElGato> =]
* ElGato/#tunes is about to get real creative with macros :)
06:50pm
<ElGato> ok i gotta go
<ElGato> laterz
<ElGato> ./warez off
<ElGato> later
07:00pm
<hcf> liar: append to the previos topic
<liar> there was no topic
<hcf> now append
07:10pm
<dtm> hcf    hahahaha   do it right or dont do it
<dtm> that's funny
07:20pm
<dtm> later guys
09:00pm
<liar> kewl, brix just booted with 8 objects
<liar> it crashed but still... :)
<eihrul> as opposed to crashing trying to run a single object
<liar> no it was working with 2 and 3 objects
09:20pm
<liar> the bug is somewhere in my thread code in the kernel
<eihrul> well, the image you gave me just locked up
<liar> no it didnt
<eihrul> on my laptop it did
<liar> the startup.init() goes into a 'jmp short $' at the end
<eihrul> but that's evil
<liar> it had no keyboard objects loaded
<eihrul> busy loops == bad
<liar> busy loops == good when u have nothing else to do
<eihrul> busy loops < halting 
09:30pm
<liar> http://www.qzx.com/brand-goo.html
<eihrul> saw it
<liar> no u didnt
<eihrul> yes i did
<liar> this is an html page
<liar> with lots of pictures
<eihrul> they are umm... odd
<liar> the middle is the original
<liar> thats what i really look like
<liar> the bottom was before i went on my diet :)
<eihrul> the top of your skull changed massively in width though
<eihrul> i don't know of many diets to do that
<liar> someone hit me in the head with a hammer everytime i ate too much :)
<liar> it gradually popped back out after i stopped eating
<eihrul> but shouldn't your skull be shorter then?
09:40pm
<liar> mr_right!!
09:50pm
<ElGato`> www.bespin.cx/~dave/pj.jpg
<liar> http://www.qzx.com/bramd-goo.html
<liar> http://www.qzx.com/brand-goo.html
<ElGato`> i l33t graphix skills ;)
10:30pm
<ElGato`> as do you as i can see
<liar> my skillz are better then yer skillz
<ElGato`> no shit
<ElGato`> im using photoshop and paint
<ElGato`> er
<ElGato`> phote editor rather
<ElGato`> m$
<liar> i used xpaint
<liar> and a hex editor
<ElGato`> im sure with time you could create some pretty cool stuff with paint
<ElGato`> a long time
<liar> oh hang on ill show u something really kewl
<ElGato`> k :)
<liar> do u know howto use screenshot?
<ElGato`> alt-printscreen?
<liar> the built in win98 thing wasnt working
<liar> so i had to download a program called screenshot99
<eihrul> umm... why must every win9x program have 9x appended?
10:40pm
<eihrul> same goes for any linux program and g(nu)
<liar> what linux programs?
<eihrul> well, maybe gnome/gtk programs specifically
<eihrul> and same goes for kde
<ElGato`> liar: show me you picture that you are talking about
<liar> ok here is a picture that i just scanned in of me
<liar> that picture was taken today
10:50pm
<liar> and this is what i look like now, after my haircut
<liar> u like?
<liar> answer me damnit
<ElGato`> gee
<ElGato`> cooly ;)
<liar> :)
<ElGato`> my picture sux :(
<liar> heh
<liar> should i dress him up?
<ElGato`> yes
<ElGato`> wait no
<liar> i know where the original is
<ElGato`> ok
<ElGato`> dress that on e up :D
<liar> this is what i look like in yer fantasies
<ElGato`> D:
11:00pm
<ElGato`> i don't think so
<liar> there ya go
<ElGato`> hahaha
<ElGato`> he looks like steve wazniak
<liar> what?
<liar> wOzniak doesnt have hair like that
<ElGato`> well he looks like a bell labs guy or something
11:10pm
<liar> heh i just sent fare the #5 image
<liar> and told him he needs to grow a beard :)
<ElGato`> yay
<ElGato`> i wonder if fare can grow a beard
<ElGato`> some people can and others can't
<liar> this program is so kewl
11:20pm
<liar> if i send email to 2 aol users will it send 2 copies or will it send one and have aol send it to each user?
<ElGato`> don't know
<ElGato`> you decide
<liar> u want this program?
<liar> i can email it to u
11:30pm
<ElGato`> no
<ElGato`> not right now
<liar> hmm well i just sent it
<liar> its queued in my server and since its 300meg it will take ahile before u get it
<ElGato`> to bespin?
<liar> ya
<ElGato`> geez
<liar> fare in teh morning
<ElGato`> i don't know if tril will like that
<liar> i just sent this one to fare
<liar> i just hope he doesnt ban me from the channel :)
<liar> well im gonna crash, gotta be up in 5 hours
11:40pm
<bluesman>  #zombie is open---for all you dead-tired *nix lovers. (really #zombie is just a mindless ploy to attract other linux users and pretend to know something about IRC :)
11:50pm
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0826