IRC log started Thu Dec  2 00:00:01 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1202
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<kamal> hai
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06:10am
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<smoke> re
08:30am
<Fufie> hi
09:00am
* smoke/#Tunes is trying to decrypt french messages on ocaml licensing
<Fufie> babelfish?
<Fufie> :)
09:20am
<zarq> then you'd have to decrypt babelfish' output first..
<smoke> heh :)
<smoke> i think it has something to do with someone who doesn't know how to license his add-ons for ocaml, since it's now partially Qpl'ed and the rest Lgpl'ed.
<Fufie> qpl? as in Qt?
<smoke> yes
<smoke>                    THE Q PUBLIC LICENSE version 1.0
<smoke> to be precise
09:30am
<Fufie> it might be a good way to learn french
09:40am
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<lohmi> hi
<smkl> hello lohmi
12:00pm
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* Fufie/#tunes yawns
<mibin> how can one yawn in perl?
<Fufie> I don't know.. but I can (yawn) in lisp
01:40pm
<mibin> wow
<mibin> (* 2 (yawn))
<Fufie> (smile)
01:50pm
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<AlonzoTG> join #tpp
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02:00pm
<Fufie> what is #tpp ?
<abi> #tpp is the channel for TPP (see TPP)
<Fufie> tpp?
<abi> tpp is the programming place, a group of hobby programmers doing what programmers should be doing, at http://tpp.dhs.org or the home of the AKOS project or a Tunes knock-off.
<yoo> tpp is a ripoff of Tunes
<yoo> tpp?
<abi> well, tpp is the programming place, a group of hobby programmers doing what programmers should be doing, at http://tpp.dhs.org or the home of the AKOS project or a Tunes knock-off.
<yoo> abi, tpp is a ripoff of Tunes.
<abi> ...but tpp is the programming place, a group of hobby programmers doing what programmers should be doing, at http://tpp.dhs.org or the home of the AKOS project or a Tunes knock-off....
<yoo> abi, tpp is also a ripoff of Tunes.
<abi> okay, yoo.
<yoo> *grin*
<yoo> abi?
<abi> yoo?
02:10pm
<yoo> abi, yoo is wonderful =)
<abi> ...but yoo is just fine =)...
<yoo> heh
<yoo> abi, yoo is wonderful
<abi> ...but yoo is just fine =)...
<yoo> yoo?
<abi> you are just fine =)
<yoo> heh
<mibin> abi, forget yoo
<abi> mibin: I forgot yoo
<mibin> abi, yoo is wonderful
<mibin> yoo?
<abi> it has been said that yoo is wonderful
<yoo> mibin?
<mibin> me?
<mibin> abi, me?
<mibin> abi, hello
<abi> mibin: hi
* mibin/#tunes is a lamer
<mibin> me?
<mibin> abi, mibin?
<abi> i haven't a clue, mibin
<yoo> abi, mibin is a lamer
<mibin> tnx yoo
<mibin> heh
<yoo> lamer?
<mibin> whatever
<yoo> ;)
<yoo> abi, lamer?
<abi> yoo: no idea
<yoo> oop
<yoo> abi, mibin?
<abi> mibin is a lamer
<yoo> ah
<yoo> abi, forget mibin
<abi> yoo: I forgot mibin
<mibin> yoo, are you into lisp?
<yoo> yah
<yoo> very much so
<mibin> and ... scheme?
<mibin> you know, that lisp dialect
<yoo> nope
<yoo> scheme is outta here
* yoo/#Tunes burns scheme
02:20pm
<mibin> why burning it?
<yoo> no particular reason =)
<mibin> heh
<yoo> I just have never messed with it to be honest
<yoo> I'm a CL man myself
<mibin> well, the syntax isnt very different
<mibin> but there are some scheme to C converters
<mibin> like ... scheme2c, bigloo and stalin
<Fufie> your point being?
<mibin> no real point, i am just attracted by that language
<mibin> whats your fav. lisp dialect, fufie?
<mibin> :P
<Fufie> CL
<Fufie> but I know my Scheme ;)
<mibin> your scheme?
<Fufie> it's an expression.. I know both languages but I prefer CL for real work
<mibin> hmm, what do you mean by 'real work'
02:30pm
<yoo> Well, Scheme seems like a fine language for students learning lisp
<mibin> i am not a student
<mibin> ;)
<Fufie> mibin: anything complex which would require more than 25 KLOC lines c++ or java
<Fufie> it is fine for smaller tasks as well, but the difference is really crystal clear when projects grow
<Fufie> mibin: BUT.. CL gives you no fewer problems when hacking code.. just different problems
<Fufie> ie when using CL you soon start doing things almost impossible in other languages
<Fufie> it's really sad.. there is no end to possible problems
<Fufie> :(
02:40pm
<mibin> no, programming would be boring without them
<mibin> :P
<mibin> just kidding
<Fufie> I'm serious
<Fufie> fufie?
<abi> you are not quite sure myself yet :)
<Fufie> :)
<mibin> hmm, but abi is not written in lisp i believe
<mibin> abi, infobot?
<abi> infobot is at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~infobot
<yoo> i believe abi is perl
02:50pm
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<smoke> hello
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<pyro> hey fellas
<Fufie> hi
<pyro> nobody else is really here?
<eihrul> nope
<mibin> me
<mibin> :p
<AlonzoTG> om
03:40pm
<hcf> oh hmm
03:50pm
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<fire> howdy
<eihrul> hey
<fire> what's up
<fire> did you guys develope tunes while i was gone ;)
-:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org>
<eihrul> well, note quite...
<eihrul> but i think fare might have rewrote some web pages
<fire> D:
<fire> about time
<fire> i would have been productive but i've been caught up playing Alpha Centauri 
<AlonzoTG> om
* AlonzoTG/#tunes has NO DOZE to play that on.
<AlonzoTG> PHUCK MICRO$LIMY
<fire> D:
<eihrul> you might have to do something rash, like make tunes instead... what a pity
<fire> yes indeed
04:30pm
<fire> i guess i'll have to pick up from where i started...8 lines of scheme code
<fire> 12 actually
<AlonzoTG> What is toonze anyway?
<fire> lol
<fire> you have been hanging around here for how long?
<AlonzoTG> yarn.
<AlonzoTG> several at least.
<fire> and you don't know what tunes is?
<AlonzoTG> I came here to ask what tunes was...
<AlonzoTG> and nobody gave me a good enough answer, and the answer has sortof entropied....
<fire> tunes is an ultimate computing system in a nutshell
<AlonzoTG> u'd wish.
<fire> um
<fire> your language has become rather degraded
<AlonzoTG> om
<AlonzoTG> too much just sitting in my room alll day and not talking to anyone.
<fire> could you cut it out with the 1334 crap?
* Fare/#Tunes is back
<Fare> 1334?
<AlonzoTG> leea?
<AlonzoTG> =P
<fire> 1337
<fire> whatever
<fire> i write my t's like 4's anyway
<fire> in my handwriting
<Fare> OpenSRS is an open source and cheap domain name registration system at http://www.opensrs.org/
<fire> fare: you rewrite some pages?
<Fare> fire: yes?
<fire> which ones?
<Fare> if you mean the page on reflection, well, I had negative feedback on the web, and decided to make it undeserved a posteriori
04:40pm
<Fare> fire: my algorithm is lazy: rewrite what I get feedback about
<fire> reflection review?
<Fare> that was the latest one
<hcf> fire: read the tunes mlist so Fare doesnt have to repeat himself
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<fire> funny i was on the mlist five minutes ago
<fire> i must be going blind
<air> i heard jacking off is a major cause of blindness
<fire> !!!
<fire> would this be direct (getting yourself in the eye?) or just side effects? ;)
* Fare/#Tunes peruses dict to understand
* Fare/#Tunes is enlightened
* Fare/#Tunes wonders why there are so few blind people, after all
<fire> he's got a point there air
* Fare/#Tunes heard that loving someone else made one blind
<Fare> and was a major cause of blindness
<fire> D:
<fire> i can vouch for that :D
<Fare> what kind of smiley is that?
<fire> um
<fire> simily?
<fire> similey
<fire> i mena
<fire> er
<fire> mean
04:50pm
<smoke> What does 'strong typing' mean ?
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<fire> i think where each variable has a type it must stick to
<_ruiner_> *yawn*
-:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you)
<smoke> fire; aha. thanks
<fire> np
05:00pm
<Fare> smoke: this means you type on the keyboard with all your strength
<eihrul> the computer scientist's version of power walking
<Fare> B E H O L D !
<eihrul> eh?
<Fare> no, nothing
<smoke> fare: lol :)
<smoke> (+lag)
<eihrul> haskell type system is nice
<Fare> so is LISP type system ;->
<eihrul> i haven't played with lisp much yet
<eihrul> am working my way there :)
<Fare> Cayenne has a richer type system than Haskell
<eihrul> abi: cayenne?
<abi> cayenne is functional programming language with dependant types at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~augustss/cayenne/
<fire> i prefer weak typing
<Fare> weak typing is for the weak minded
<eihrul> fire: that's fine... but i like strong typing
<fire> fare: hellz no
<eihrul> Fare: is cayenne a serious alternative to haskell?
<Fare> even assembly language can be typed! (see TAL)
<smoke> is the word 'functional' used as in 'it works correctly' or as the mathematical function?
<fire> when i use weak typing i feel like im drifting through a void of pleasure (ala maxwells ether :D)
<fire> mathematical function
<Fare> eihrul: cayenne dumps haskell as its backend (using a special flag for whichever haskell compiler to not check types, since cayenne already checked types, using a richer type system)
05:20pm
<smoke> what is weak typing then?
<eihrul> Fare: but i assume its more than a haskell preprocessor?
<AlonzoTG> om
<Fare> eihrul: just like C is more than an assembly preprocessor
<Fare> or maybe that's inadequate; rather just like C++ is not just a C preprocessor
<Fare> (C allows less than assembly)
<Fare> damn C
<fire> yes
<fire> damn damn C
<Fare> hey, that should be added to abi: a damn directive
<eihrul> Fare: not quite what i meant...
<Fare> eihrul: Cayenne is Haskell with an enriched type system
<eihrul> ok, fair enough
<Fare> never enough fare!
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05:30pm
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Z!)
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<lar1> Hey
<Fare> yeah
<lar1> Fare?  Alive?....
<lar1> Hmmm
<lar1> Somthing must be wrong ;)
05:40pm
<Fare> lar1: no, I'm right.
<lar1> fare:  Just right or all right?
<Fare> oh left after all.
<lar1> So you are all left right?
<Fare> in the middle!
<Fare> (right in the middle, or left in the middle?)
<eihrul> middle of the middle
<lar1> So you are only left right in the middle?
<Fare> don't meddle with me
<eihrul> meddle with fare left right in the middle of the middle...
<lar1> Meddle with Fare's middle?
<Fare> fiddle
<lar1> Meddle with your fiddle?
<lar1> Medoly?  Melody?
* eihrul/#tunes ponders the vague similarity to a Dr. Seuse book.
<Fare> hi, doodle diddle and the cow, and the fiddle and the cat jump over the moon
<Fare> how, by the devil can a cow, and a fiddle and a cat jump over the moon?
<lar1> Hey didle diddle the cat and the fiddle the cow jumped over the moon the little dog lauchged to see such a sight and the dish ran away with the moon
<Fare> but just like the kid who starts to croon
<lar1> err spoon
<Fare> mother goose's fav'rite tunes
<Fare> the cat and the fiddle and the cow
<lar1> Fare:  You are sure you are all right?  Perhaps you are burning up (or down?)?
<Fare> in the middle of me hi doodle diddling, too
<fire> Fare: put away the bong and get back to work
<lar1> fire:  Its too late for that...
<fire> 4:20 was hours ago
<lar1> Only about 1hr 20mins
<fire> in our timezone
<fire> not in his
<lar1> How do you fare Fare?
<lar1> fire this is true
<lar1> I think Fare passed out
<lar1> Ohwell, fire warned him
05:50pm
<eihrul> gods can't pass out
<eihrul> the world just skips
<lar1> Are you refering to Fare as a god?
<eihrul> we're all the gods of our own personal universe :P
<lar1> Heh
<eihrul> if'n y'all even exist to have them
<lar1> n y?
<eihrul> if even you all....
<eihrul> spurious constractions are nice
<lar1> Ok...
<lar1> bbl
-:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving)
06:00pm
<zarq> is any of you into cryptography?
06:10pm
<mibin> hmm, not really
<mibin> but i like els codes
<zarq> what's that?
<mibin> equidistant letter sequences
<zarq> ah yeah.
<mibin> i have written some tools that can look for them
<zarq> are they hard to find for larger distances?
<mibin> no, as long as the distance is always the same
<mibin> my program tries to find common english words to guess the offset
<mibin> they look like t1h2i3s
<zarq> it's not really cryptography, is it :)
<mibin> heh
<mibin> even reversed text is an els code
<mibin> where the distance is a negative one
<zarq> yes, i know..
<mibin> i wonder how els codes are effective as subliminal messages
<zarq> can be pretty confusing when doing it with bits
<mibin> heh
06:20pm
<zarq> and it's not really useable for opensource programs.. anyone knowing how it's done can easily decipher it
<mibin> it would be fun to make a program that puts els codes in spoken text altering its meaning as little as possible
<zarq> i think that would be near to impossible..
<mibin> hmm difficult but not really impossible
<zarq> you'd need a damn good AI system
06:30pm
<mibin> heh
<mibin> many els codes have been found in some parts of the bible
<zarq> `i know
<zarq> but it's not surprising that you can find them in so many text
<mibin> yea minor ones can be found in any text
06:40pm
<mibin> i actually tryed to find els codes in the kjv version of the bible, but found no relevant code
<mibin> tried*
<Fare> jesus spoke aramean, and maybe read hebrew.
<Fare> the bible was originally written in bad greek by jewish folks
<mibin> yea thats probably why searching in an english version of the bible wouldnt work =)
<Fare> the old testament, that evolved for a long time, and went from hands to hands, is more subject to hidden codes
<Fare> (depends on which parts of it, too)
<zarq> mibin: any language would do.. as long as you keep looking long enough :)
<mibin> zarq: heh
<Fare> zarq: have you tried to translate the lost poem of Angdir?
<mibin> hmm, how can zarq translate it if it is lost?
<Fare> first, by finding it with google!
<zarq> fare: yes i translated it just before it got lost.. people think it,'s lost, but i think its somewhere in this pile
<mibin> heh
* zarq/#tunes points to where his desk should be
<zarq> frankly, i've never heard of it
<mibin> me neither
06:50pm
<fire> does scheme use tail recursion only if it's self is called at the very end of it's self?
<Fare> zarq: if you've never heard of where your desk should be, you're in trouble!
<Fare> fire: nope, the RnRS specifies all tail calls are to be optimized into jumps
<fire> so everytime it calls itself it jumps?
<Fare> although a few implementations do not comply, or only comply as an option
<Fare> fire: no, you may call self in non-tail position
<Fare> at which time it will be a regular call
<Fare> (and you may tail-call to someone else)
<Fare> what matters to Scheme is tail/nontail call.
<zarq> fare: yea i just cleaned my room..
* Fare/#Tunes cleaned his backoffice, and renewed his ads.html page
07:00pm
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<_ruiner_> anybody know of any good online references to writing drivers?
07:30pm
<air> for bric?
<air> er brix
<_ruiner_> why would anybody want to write anything for brix?!?!?
<_ruiner_> jk.....
07:40pm
<air> u wanna tell me howto create an html file in win98?
<yoo> notepad
<air> right but notepad names it *.html.txt
<_ruiner_> go to the dos prompt and use edit
<_ruiner_> rename it
<air> how?
<_ruiner_> dude....are you serious?
<air> i need an easy to use idiot way to do it
<yoo> notepad shouldn't if you give it an extension explicitly
<air> think about it, i wouldnt use win98 to write html
<_ruiner_> click on the filename.....then do it again...then take out the .txt
<_ruiner_> notepad does yoo....drove me nuts when I wrote html more often
<air> the .txt doesnt appear in the filename
<_ruiner_> open up a folder and go to ......ummmm.....view?
<yoo> Does win98 even comew ith dos edit?
<_ruiner_> view/options
<_ruiner_> then view under that and make it show extensions
<_ruiner_> might be different in 98....I'm using 95 and refuse to touch 98
<air> ok got it
<air> but u have to open it with a sendto now
<_ruiner_> *ahem* you're welcome
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<lar1> Hey
<lar1> _ruiner_!
<_ruiner_> lar1!
07:50pm
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<_ruiner_> zo!
<AlonzoTG> om
<_ruiner_> mo
08:10pm
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<lar1> abi: seen water
<abi> water was last seen on IRC 31 days, 9 hours, 23 minutes and 53 seconds ago, saying: good point [Mon Nov  1 11:19:50 1999]
08:50pm
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<_ruiner_> air......can I ask you something in osdev?
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09:40pm
<hcf> abi: alttlg?
<abi> alttlg is A Lisp Through the Looking Glass at http://www.cb1.com/~john/thesis/thesis.html
09:50pm
-:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you)
<hcf> Tril: what r u currently working on?
<Tril> i am working on writing this 1 page paper for the participants in a meeting for me tomorrow.
<Tril> wait, I'm not meeting tomorrow, the meeting will be Monday or the first week of next quarter
<Tril> I have to have the paper given out tomorrow
<hcf> so, nothing tunes related
<Tril> I have to give an indication of how the classes I've been taking relate to TUNES so they can say I am ready to proceed and design a custom degree around it
<hcf> oic
<Tril> the problem is , as usualy, explaining what tunes is
10:20pm
<Tril> but the good news is that since my research is so broad in scope that I wont finish it as undergrad. But designing a custom undergrad degree is almost exactly like grad school I hear :)
<Tril> the part about appointing a committee, mostly
<Tril> now I'm sounding like a dry academic :)  I better find something to hack...
-:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Tril has no reason)
10:30pm
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- SignOff air: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.1203
IRC log ended Fri Dec  3 00:00:01 1999