IRC log started Tue Dec 28 00:00:01 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1228 -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us719.javanet.com]) -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-88.ici.net] has joined #tunes * Downix/#tunes falls over laughing Oh man, anyone want a laugh? that is of course if anyone is awake abi: Sphere? Sphere is Jim Little's Sphere project, at http://www.teleport.com/~sphere abi: SphereOS? i don't know, downix hehe 02:30am gakuk what? 03:20am * Fufie/#tunes yawns.. ya morning -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (Read error: 1.414213562 (Excessive square root of 2)) -:- Kaufmann [kaufmann@amadeus.fluid.impa.br] has joined #tunes FOO! XYZZY! (now something should happen) Not bloody likely I said XYZZY!.. do you mean this is not ADVENT? bummer guess not :P other xterm window :P maybe I'll hack X to make me jump to a random window if I ever type xyzzy dat's cute look out for the flying cat, tho 06:20am alleycat was a fun game -:- Kaufmann is now known as KaufmannBRB -:- KaufmannBRB is now known as Kaufmann 06:30am why must debugging be so hard? Debugging is Gosper's way of saying that you should write better code in the first place The Gosper in Sun? Debugging is Gosper's way of saying that you should write better code in the first place The Gosper in Sun? urgh! :P 07:20am stupid text buffers anyway, is he at Sun now? I wouldn't know I think maybe Gosper should do some his evangelism at Sun then I know he used to be at MIT, then at Stanford But that was A Long Long Time Ago like 60's/70's long ago it seemed to work now what? the troublesome code ah good! 07:30am -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-131-95.s95.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes Hey Big Al -:- yoo [ultima@user-38lc6fm.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes * yoo/#tunes shudders -:- yoo is now known as ultima God damn it, some fool moderated me down hu0hu0hu0hu0hu0! I tiold youman slashdot isn't ready for essence of clue they will say 'this guy just spouts bullshit that i don't understand, IGNORE!!!' 07:50am I am an OP of #nano on efnet. =) 08:00am -:- SignOff ultima: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ultima[user-38lc6fm.dialup.mindspring.com]) -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi]) buh-bye -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Don't you hate these silly little quit messages?) -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes 08:50am -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.105.15] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us130.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- fire [no@209-68-229-207.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes howdy hi :D fare: do you have anything morally against Corel? * AlonzoTG/#tunes is going to have the PHAT12 filesystem specs printed.... =) that means I'm actually getting close to implementing a filesystem! =) 10:20am uh good for you al 10:30am -:- water [water@tnt-10-207.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes 'lo again abi seen beholder? beholder was last seen on IRC 9 days, 18 hours, 2 minutes and 26 seconds ago, saying: I'll be right back [Sat Dec 18 16:30:02 1999] hm anyone have news? heh. thought not. well, i'll be around later. if beholder shows up, have him wait for me, if you could. -:- water [water@tnt-10-207.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] ah shit i missed him 10:40am -:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES (Ping timeout for mibin[62.11.105.15]) !is:*! any services admins awake ? !lilo:*! no !lilo:*! *grin* !is:*! oh well !lilo:*! what's up? !NickServ:*! lilo used GETPASS on linuxmorr -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp03.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- ultima [ultima@user-37kbals.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes -:- ultima_ [ultima@user-38lcn5b.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff ultima: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ultima[user-37kbals.dialup.mindspring.com]) -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-209.ici.net] has joined #tunes howdy downix hey my people need to talk to your people ;) about distribution of your products Oh? im kidding brb 12:20pm grrr all the ndb reps are busy uh whoops wrong channel om 12:30pm ndb? FAT 32 is actually FAT 28!!! =P *THAT* is perverse... And grounds for a class action lawsuit for false advertising!!! -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us130.javanet.com]) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us130.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- core [core@core.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes people hi Core! Clementine Guy! * ultima_/#tunes wants Clem =) hey hehe.. hi ultima :) hi mr. Downes :) downix: did you read my email? :) 12:40pm core: Not since you explained that I needed to un-gzip the file downix: oh-hum.. interesting :) downix: i replied yesterday I was going to check mail in a few * Downix/#tunes checks his mail every other day or so downix: oh, you didn't check. okay then :) downix: that's okay, i was just wondering if you read it. more good news in it :) core where is clem? core: Alright. Let me check mm, in ~/home/core/sources/{os,contrib} at the moment :) downix: no hurry :) er when's it gona be released? s/\/home/core// core: Alright. BTW, when we do get the NDA (get their ass on that) do I work from CVS or what? ultima_: soon... i gave up on giving open release dates. it has heretic and an http server running tho :) core: core! eihrul: eihrul! for extra emphasis, of course hehe 'fourth core sighting in a month' uh yes last, too tomorrow i'm going to the US until january 7 where in the US? downix: phoenix. come have a drink with us? :) core: A bit far, I'll take a raincheck got a holdover in Boston perchance? downix: nah, pittsburgh :) raincheck? * core/#tunes learns a new word :) raincheck == Let's try it later downix: ahhh. okay, thanks, i learnt something ;) a check (IOU style) for a rainy day core: My fiance' lives just outside of pittsburg downix: i have a few hours of layover there ;) core: Well, I wish I was visiting her now downix: i can imagine :) * Downix/#tunes laughs 12:50pm downix: so, checked your email? :) downloading it now downix: gee, i didn't send that much ;) no, but other people have don't see it, let me check downix: i can resend it if you like ok 01:00pm found it downix: ah ok, cool :) ok core, read it hmm core: the ARM port may be more useful than you think skaro downix: well, it'll be useful to us for sure :) why for you? :) ARM's instruction set is based on MIPS downix: oh, hehe not identical, but similar enough to cross-port downix: that's cool, if it can save development time :) A lot of development time and the abstractions used would make your OS even better 01:10pm downix: it's already quite abstracted; i will have a few issues to solve i'm sure, even though i've been very paranoid. downix: it uses machine features extensively but it's not dependent on any :;) * Downix/#tunes nods Alright downix: i'm aware that we'll find unwanted dependencies tho downix: the ARM port should clear them up * Downix/#tunes nods, always do Yes it should i downloaded armulator and such, i hope they'll work well enough :) downix: any docs on your architecture that i can have a look at? if it's not secret-defense either :) core: Nothing other than a general tech overview, everything else is sporatic. Trying to organize them into real docs other than tech notes is a major undertaking downix: yeah, i can understand that :) just curious. did your partners like the demo? they did other than we can't get the right keymap 8) downix: hehe, oops :-) downix: press F10 once or twice ? :) om tried that -:- SignOff fire: #TUNES (Ping timeout for fire[209-68-229-207.dialup.cust.tfb.com]) eeek, it's core! =\ why thanks Al :) Okay core; spill the beans! what beans? :) What's this OS you are working on that is supposed to be hundreds of times better than mine? alonzo: the same i've been working on all along. alonzo: and i don't know about the 'hundred of times part'. I forgot what it was... 01:20pm AlonzoTG: a component-based operating system; entirely made out of those. it has the high merit of working today, otherwise it's still perfectible i'm sure. oh yeah... It has been said that mine is almost identical. Unfortunately the prototype Downix has asked for will cost me $10,000 to develop. =\ AlonzoTG: it costed us a lot more than that to develop the system actually. Core, so what is the licensng deal with Clementine? ultima_: right now none and a per-case basis. soon it should change :) 01:30pm DEAR GOD!!! Alonzo? I am reading about FATS and I just learned that MICROSOFT is AWARE that their code misscalculates the space to allocate for their FATS!!!! AlonzoTG: oh, fascinating So? What do you mean it miscalculates the space to allocate FATs? "Occasionally [it allocates] up to 8 sectors to large for FAT32. oh wow big loss to me, any incalculation is intolerable. misscalculation. 01:40pm bah AlonzoTG: people don't exactly use FAT for its mission-critical skills AlonzoTG: the docs are quite approximative but one can make a working implementation with some patience. I should have no problems... Just read the orrigional bootsector, extract the data, make a report to the user, generate the gnu bootsector and write it to disk. 01:50pm om MS's implementation of FAT is grotesque... The same filesystem, albeit in a noncompatable way, could be 5% more efficient. =\ hah Alonzo: the whole point of FAT is compatibility. if you want something more efficient, use another fs entirely phe * AlonzoTG/#tunes just learned why the data structures in FAT 32 Bootsectors are so bloated... THERE ARE 3 BOOTSECTORS!!! 02:00pm erm why? mbr, msdos.sys, io.sys? =) yes... are you on 'doze 78? nope NT hmmm... Can someone send me a dump of the first 3 sectors on their drive? (fat 32 only) blah GNU libtool -sucks- its just one large monolithic bash script of course it sucks libtool sucks that's a fact. GGI setup went from 'simple' to 'wow, it worked this time' now that we use it. ultima: it's a mess yes ultima: but knowing all shared configurations is a mess as well WHo is we? Is we the b0b? 02:10pm -:- SignOff ultima_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ultima_[user-38lcn5b.dialup.mindspring.com]) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us130.javanet.com]) -:- ultima_ [ultima@user-38lcn5b.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes cool, all my books arrived eihrul: "how to pick up linux chicks"? hmmmmm nope lisp, haskell, smalltalk stuff :-) "how to pick up chicks with small talk"? :) "How to meet women through Common-Lisp" lol well, one of them is a book on lisp and artificial intelligence :) "How to meet artificial chicks through Common-Loop" artificial intelligence? blondes? perhaps * ultima_/#tunes loads Unreal Tournament heh, for all the people who wanted it here, i saw the dragon book on the drawer of one of the people at suntech i have way too many books to be keeping them on my floor... stack of books 3 feet high with dragon book sitting atop :) eihrul's a rich bum =) wtf do you get your cash? drug smugglign ultima_: he sells vital organs :) eih: an honest way to make money Fufie: which book to read first? :) legalising pot would make a lot of people unemployed eih: which do you have? 02:20pm C00L! Fufie: all the ones you suggested + more :) FAT supports incremental backups! eihrul? somebody said eihrul was someone else I'd keep an eye on Smuggling? Fufie: i bought craft of functional programming with haskell and smalltalk-80 ultima_: shrug eih: if you want to go AI right away, read PAIP first.. if you want a traditional language approach, go ANSI COmmon Lisp ultima: we used to call it bootlegging when I was a kid -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us130.javanet.com] has joined #tunes ANSI Common Lisp was a good book. Are you trying to learn Lisp? yah hmm * ultima_/#tunes is stuck between using Forth and Lisp for his game ;) ultima: infix in other words? ;) use Fosp -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us130.javanet.com]) though Forsp sounds better Fufie: Nah Forsp? blah. I've decided to not go HP Thing is it can't be too hard to code in. 02:30pm Otherwise no one will code in it I've also considered C...interfacing GCC with the mud. That way when GCC supports new languages it'll be able to use those too. That creates security risks but Assertion failed: MinLogTextureSize Cute. later. BTW eihrul-- my game works on Windows with full hardware acceleration. Can you say the same? =) yes Last i heard you were using XShm? not my chess game :P blah =) SDL? my chess game compiles on both windows and linux, uses glut and sockets Oh. OpenL. why are you making a chess game? actually libsocks which wraps bsd sockets and winsocks is it just a board like xboard/ i made it already took me a whole night ultima_: because the other guy is on Win32 oh well adios. -:- SignOff ultima_: #TUNES (Leaving) eihrul: remind me, you aren't near phoenix are you? Las Vegas which is right next to Arizona in Nevada * AlonzoTG/#tunes wonders wheather LINUX formats FAT32 drives better than windowsX ? 02:40pm yes Alonzo, it turns them into ext2 eihrul: hmm, well, i'll be in Phoenix from dec 29 to jan 6 hmm pondering what's today's date? downix: 28 dang if you would be in pitts on the 30th, I could meet you * Downix/#tunes gets paid on the 30th unfortunately i'll be there tomorrow (29th) :) that's ok, i go to the US often. every 3 months average oh, ok om CORE: How can I raise $10,000 to develop my prototype? drug smuggling (I want it to have at least DOS 2 capability) lol AlonzoTG: mmm.. find a reason to make it, business partners that have that money (not all that much), create a company? kevin lawton answered to my bug report for Bochs, i seem to have hit a spot, but i can't make head or tails out of the answer :PPP i'll just remember that he found how to fix it :-) Downix needs it. He *should* fund it.... alonzo: how have you come up with $10k? Banks don't loan for less than $30,000 and I have no way of paying it back nor collateral.... AlonzoTG: downix doesn't need a particular OS. he just needs one that fits his needs. it could as well be a free one reshaped for his purposes I just added togeather figuring about $250 to develop each basic driver and then multiplied.... because $10k is two-three months of development roughly that too say two man-months yes. or 6 moron months... (which it is in this case) =\ could you write an OS in two months? With the design I have right now, it is doable, in theory. I need to complete my specification. ie multiply with at least four? I'm looking ahead at the filesystem driver at the moment. 02:50pm no but seriously, if you could hack a lot of an OS in two months and have work permit in EU it should be possible to get you a job with $10000 you can fund 2 1/2 days of suntech at the moment :P (work days that is.) hmm... let me look at the design some more... even the best fail.. Knuth thought he needed a few months on TeX and it took several years fail estimates I mean he probably spent some of those years deciding on to use \ or @ :-) core: he chose both.. maybe Knuth is really Winnie the Pooh? fufie: maybe :) i didn't care much for TeX or texinfo before, but a guy at suntech gave me a quick show on texinfo, and i'm really starting to like it now i'm starting to think in terms of @ and {}, this is _bad_ :) holy texinfo, another stallman creation, amen. (or i think it is anyway) I don't like texinfo why? :) just curious. i didn't like it until i wrote a complete doc with it TeX or LaTeX I like, but texinfo is a mess compared to doing it right with sgml (e.g linuxdoc or docbook) fufie: i did some sgml for ggi docs, it wasn't as.. i don't know, flowing naturally? especially those weird open-but-not-closed tags -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp124.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes fufie: the guy who taught me it, made a lot of nice macros for us, so building docs is quite easy. lots of predefined emphasis styles :) ahh.. so it was not vanilla texinfo? fufie: no.. well, he taught me vanilla texinfo, but he made a lot of macros for us to write quick documentation that looks good and has a standard 'suntech' style grrr if only i could fit 300 rows of text in my xterm I will probably end up writing my thesis in LaTeX 03:00pm eihrul: M-X getblind? :) fufie: that works also -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.105.231] has joined #tunes fufie: i really disliked writing ~ 200 K of docs in sgml. latex or texinfo does me better :) core: well, ls ~/home/lee | less overflows my scroll back buffer! eihrul: i can relate :) i have way too much code and directories sitting around er ls ~/ i mean :) or ls /home/lee hehe, i did the same mistake earlier. jinx. my harddisk is sorted in a fascist way. how so? -:- fire [no@209-68-229-131.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes CORE! !!! :D eihrul: lots of subdirs :) ahh * fire/#tunes acts excited like a dog that knows it's about to go on a walk whereas an anarchy would be files all over the place :) like mine hey fire :) * fire/#tunes likes core's face *pant pant* * fire/#tunes looks at eihrul *growl* er licks D: hehe fire hows clementine? fire: working :) heretic works, so does a web server :) can we download it? i haven't had too much progress on anything of mine aw :/ i wrote most of the lexer for my intepreter yesterday 03:10pm hmm, what day is it? eihrul: tuesday :) <_ruiner_> its today here it is tuesday let today = tuesday in today 03:20pm (define today 'tuesday) #define TODAY __DATE__ "Why C is an HLL", by Emmanuel Marty, in all good libraries. today = ?day with ?day = Tuesday Tuseday sucks. Its the day I always got into trouble in JrHI and got detention/suspension. core: nah, the preprocessor is high level of sorts, but otherwise no :) well, i'm going to bed. i don't think i'll be on irc till january 7 when i return from the US.. so have fun waiting for the end of the world, see you soon :) eihrul: oh hush ;)