IRC log started Tue May  9 00:00:03 2000
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0509
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<ProGuy> ahh.. long time since I was here ;)
<Kyle_L> Would you beleive me if I said Tunes was done?  ;)
03:00pm
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-:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from tolkien.openprojects.net)
-:- Your host is tolkien.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from tolkien.openprojects.net)
-:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT(from tolkien.openprojects.net)
-:- tolkien.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv 
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!tolkien.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 18 (15 clients)
!tolkien.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects!  You are on 3 ca 1(2) ft 14(14).
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-:- Topic for #TUNES: TUNES - A Free Reflective Computing System - http://www.tunes.org/ || The Slate Language - http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-home.html
-:- topic set by water [Sun May  7 12:55:58 2000]
-:- [Users(#tunes:4)] 
[ TUNES     ] [ thomas    ] [ smkl      ] [ abi       ] 
-:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999
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<CodingHea> Yeas! :)
<CodingHea> How TUNES goes???
<CodingHea> There is allready any kernel image to test????
<eihrul> no
<CodingHea> hoooo....what a pity!!! :)
05:10pm
<CodingHea> Any one here have experience with compiler programming design???
<CodingHea> Syntax Directed Parsing???
<CodingHea> I think not! :(
<CodingHea> bye
<eihrul> CodingHea: uh, use lexx and yacc, problem solved
<eihrul> s/lexx/lex
<CodingHea> I like making things by my own way.....to take someknowledge too!!! :)
<eihrul> uh, then what's the problem/
<CodingHea> the structure which we have to use to get that thing to work
<CodingHea> do you know the this Parsing type ???
<eihrul> uh, it sounds like a homework assignment...
<CodingHea> Syntax Directed Parsing ???
<CodingHea> homework...what you mean with that???
<eihrul> "we have to use"
<CodingHea> is forced expression....eheh..sorry
<CodingHea> I am Portuguese...and
<eihrul> buy the dragon book, read it
-:- CodingHea is now known as CodingHeaven
<CodingHeaven> Try look at this page "http://CodingHeaven.freeservers.com"
<eihrul> why?
<CodingHeaven> some info...about what i am trying to do! eheh :)
<CodingHeaven> eihrul..The page worked fine???
<eihrul> shrug, yet another OS
05:20pm
<CodingHeaven> the page worked well???
<eihrul> not really
<eihrul> well, even if it did work, it's done poorly :)
<CodingHeaven> I am olone with this project....what you expected???? :)
<eihrul> a lynx-friendly page?
<eihrul> less spurious use of frames? :)
<CodingHeaven> But about the OS...the page concerned what you see there???
<eihrul> eh? what about it?
<CodingHeaven> I put the site on freeservers....but when I tried it did appeared some things!!!
<CodingHeaven> I put the site on freeservers....but when I tried it didn't appeared some things!!!
<CodingHeaven> trye this link http://www.linuxfan.com/~CodingHeaven 
<CodingHeaven> eihrul...so ...is better??? :)
<eihrul> no, it still uses frames!
<CodingHeaven> you only have lynx ??? :)
<eihrul> no
<eihrul> but i HATE netscape
<CodingHeaven> eheh
<CodingHeaven> why...don't you like graphics???
05:30pm
<eihrul> graphics don't add to the information
<eihrul> i don't need graphics
<CodingHeaven> hummmm...your vision is very black..instead!
<CodingHeaven> ok....you can't help me...so I am going.... :)
<eihrul> well, this is not #webpage-critiques
<eihrul> this is #tunes :P
<CodingHeaven> eheh..okok :)
<CodingHeaven> but ...I think link can handle frames ..in its proper way! :)
<CodingHeaven> but ...I think lynx can handle frames ..in its proper way! :)
<eihrul> nope
<eihrul> frames are horrible in lynx
<eihrul> and like images, they don't add to the webpage
<CodingHeaven> humm...How can I put easy lynx support too??? :)
<CodingHeaven> easy
<eihrul> remove frames :)
<CodingHeaven> eheh..no ! :)
<eihrul> again, everything you did with frames on that page could be done with tables atleast!
<CodingHeaven> hummm...but that isn't so easy..and the stay with bad structure! .)
05:40pm
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<eihrul> tcn: please tell ch how evil frames are...
<tcn> frames? all they do is get in the way
<tcn> use a full page
05:50pm
<CodingHeaven> ...didn't work! :(
<CodingHeaven> Ahhhhh...is working now!!! :)
06:00pm
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<CodingHeaven> => http://CodingHeaven.freeservers.com
<CodingHeaven> well...someone want to help the project??? :)
<CodingHeaven> no....ok...bye people...have a good day! :)
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<water> hey
<eihrul> hey
<water> whoa! no lurkers
<water> :)
* eihrul/#tunes is pondering the perverse malevolence of side-effects.
<water> yeah it's easy to make a squeak virus, for instance, right now
<water> (which is getting fixed)
<eihrul> well, not quite what i was pondering :)
<eihrul> on the one hand... they complicate everything
<eihrul> on the other, you need them to do noticeable work
* water/#tunes sees a metaphor with females approaching
<water> ;)
<eihrul> well, i wouldn't know... :P
<water> hm codingheaven was bugging you today?
<eihrul> shrug, i was only one here to bug
<water> anyway, you could probably deal with side-effects by restricting the nastiness within language grammar
<eihrul> well, problem comes down at the intermediate language level...
<water> of course, slate can do specific things with meta-objects and namespace access defaults
<eihrul> register allocation introduces them
<water> hm
<water> so you mean low-level side-effects
<eihrul> well, high-level side-effects are also possible :)
<eihrul> so i have to watch for those as well...
<water> elaboration?
<eihrul> memory writes...
<water> heh duh!
<water> you can always treat memory as a cache system
<eihrul> but am thinking of representing them as a sort of identity function
08:10pm
<water> what about keeping the memory model below the IL level?
<eihrul> it is...
<water> how so?
<eihrul> but at some level you introduce memory
<eihrul> the HIL does not know about memory perse... but the LIL
<eihrul> does
<water> this is a bit vague... what sort of IL are you considering?
<water> hm
<eihrul> that's up for debate
<eihrul> right now i'm pondering whether to go back to control flow graphs to model side-effects :)
<water> or data-flow with hof's
<water> or data-flow with monads </rant>
<eihrul> well, again, that's pretty much what i've been playing with :)
<water> hm
<water> well that's obviously the HIL
<water> that identity function idea makes me think that a combinator language (not necessarily stack-*based*) would suit the LIL
<eihrul> well, its just to represent obscure dependencies like:
<water> but reifying memory access would make that tricky
<eihrul> for (i = 0; i < someMaximum; i += 1) printSomething ();
<eihrul> in which case data-flow would completely ignore printSomething () >:)
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<water> heh except that that's c-code
<eihrul> sure, but C is ideal for exemplifying side-effects!
<water> bah it's ideal for describing LIL crap
<eihrul> it doesn't matter what its in..
<water> and the info needed to make sure the code isn't screwed up is gone at that level
<eihrul> well, yes... that's why i'm evaluating what needs to be propagated to that point to ensure it produces the effects its supposed to :P
<water> ok
08:20pm
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<water> anyone care to discuss something?
09:20pm
<water> abi beep core
<abi> i beeped core
09:30pm
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<water> hello mog
<mog> hey water
<mog> hows slate goin
<water> working on it still
<water> there's a new evaluator in lisp
<water> but eihrul
<water> oops
<mog> im checking out the tutorial on the site
<water> but eihrul's focussing on the full dynamic compiler, and i'm working out the final syntax and basic library features
<water> k
10:10pm
<water> unfortunately, both eihrul and i have been overloaded by school/work respectively recently, so development has slowed for a bit
<mog> is it gonna compile to bytecode and be executed by a bytecode interp?
-:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Hell Yes!)
<water> but i have vacation time coming up to fix that :)
<water> no
<water> although the intermediate code might be a bytecode set at some point, though dynamically-modifiable
10:20pm
<mog> nice article
<water> really? thanks
<mog> welp i should probably get some sleep
<water> the next part is supposed to introduce some things that explain some more advanced concepts
<mog> see ya
<water> ok
<mog> i hope so :P
<mog> interesting developments
<mog> ok i gotta go
<water> heh cya
<mog> bye
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10:30pm
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<water> re smoke
11:00pm
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* water/#tunes reads up on how category theory applies to software specifications
<hcf> abi: HeavenOS is CodingHeaven's OS project at http://www.terravista.pt/IlhadoMel/2994/HeavenOS/index.html http://CodingHeaven.freeservers.com/cgi-bin/framed/3313/HeavenOS/index.html
<abi> ...but heavenos is at http://www.linuxfan.com/~HeavenOS...
<hcf> abi: no, HeavenOS is CodingHeaven's OS project at http://www.terravista.pt/IlhadoMel/2994/HeavenOS/index.html http://CodingHeaven.freeservers.com/cgi-bin/framed/3313/HeavenOS/index.html http://www.linuxfan.com/~HeavenOS
<abi> okay, hcf.
<water> heh
<water> abi: vapour?
<abi> rumour has it vapour is at http://ftp.rook.com.au/
<water> ok if heavenOS gets an entry, so does vapour ;)
<water> it's odd how i'm now considering going to stanford instead of mit
11:20pm
<water> hm got a paper here that affirms my choices for slate design
<water> just grep for caise97.ps on RI
11:50pm
<water> hm i'll put it up on references
<water> ok it's harder to find the url than i supposed
<water> hcf: could you locate "An Object-Oriented Functional Approach to Information Systems Engineering"?
<hcf> u mean clover?
<water> yeah
<hcf> http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/L.Braine/clover/
<water> n/m i just found the RI entry
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0510
IRC log ended Wed May 10 00:00:01 2000